THE UNOFFICIALFOOTBALLERSFAN ARCHIVE↗Transcript links use the exact YouTube video’s clock. Machine transcripts can contain errors.
Mike and Jason say absent Andy is the show's dad and use his absence as permission for more fun. Andy has lost another tooth, this time in front; Toothless and Lloyd Christmas become possible animated-character clues, and the desk assures listeners he will be repaired.
The hosts continue trying to pronounce Travis Etienne as Travis A. Chan, but admit that listeners will not know which player they mean. Respecting the requested pronunciation and communicating clearly are presented as competing obligations.
Kirk Cousins' $321 million career earnings prompt a gold jacket for his agent and credit for Cousins' guaranteed-money discipline. Cousins and Fernando Mendoza are then called clean-mouthed goobers who love Kohl's markdowns, will become Kohl's Bros, and should reach a handshake agreement for Cousins to become godfather of Mendoza's children within one weekend.
Jauan Jennings asking for more money repeatedly mutates his name into Joanne Jennings and Juan Jans. The desk says he misplayed his hand because younger draft versions of 'Joanne Jennings' will be cheaper.
A Jay Griz audio theme fires around the mailbag without being requested. The hosts insist they never ask for it, compare every deployment to a frying pan to the face, then concede it is a good jam whose J. Gris refrain gets stuck in the head. No physical cardboard presence is established.
Kyle the Borgogan puts Kyren Williams on the trade block during the mailbag. One host considers grabbing him before the episode ends; the desk tells Kyle to fill his entire roster with running backs and pretend he is a contender, which makes an unlabeled participant angry.
The hosts cannot say Emeka Egbuka, producing A Buca Gronkowski, Mecca Egg Begbo, and related mutations. They blame Rob Gronkowski's prior monstrous comment for ruining Egbuka's career and their brains, while an unnamed host remembers Egbuka as his former My Guy.
Jameson Williams becomes Jay Willie, first-half blunder and second-half wonder. The hosts reveal that he was absent Andy's My Guy and shares Andy's March 26 birthday, making them B-day bros; the later success is also tied to Dan Campbell's Coach Guns Mahoney play-calling takeover.
The hosts ask why the Deucers missed Mike's possible verbal stumble and learn the crew was reading ahead and working a fantasy trade instead of producing. They observe that the camera installers suspiciously omitted any rear view of the crew's screens, demand screen sharing, and call the live trade activity an illegal tampering period. Individual crew speakers are not identified.
Mike and Jason open as best friends without Andy, call the absent host the show's dad, and say they can have more fun while he is gone. The reason is another missing tooth—this time in front—which produces Toothless and Lloyd Christmas comparisons and a promise of repair. The prior episode's pronunciation crisis continues when Travis Etienne is called Travis A. Chan and the hosts admit respect for his name conflicts with listeners knowing whom they mean. Kirk Cousins' $321 million career becomes a gold jacket for his agent, then Cousins and projected rookie Fernando Mendoza become clean-mouthed goobers who shop Kohl's markdowns, form the Kohl's Bros, and are expected to reach a godfather handshake within a weekend. Jauan Jennings becomes Joanne Jennings and Juan Jans while pricing himself out of free agency. The core Jay evidence is audio only: an unsolicited Jay Griz theme fires around the mailbag cue, is compared to a frying pan to the face, and remains stuck in a host's head. Mid-mailbag, Kyle the Borgogan puts Kyren Williams on the trade block; the hosts consider acquiring him during the episode, mock Kyle for pretending to contend, and urge him to build an entire roster of running backs. Rob Gronkowski's old Emeka Egbuka pronunciation is blamed for destroying both Egbuka's name and the hosts' brains, yielding A Buca Gronkowski, Egg Begbo, and 'What is Rob with me?' Jameson Williams is remembered as absent Andy's My Guy because the two are birthday bros, while Dan Campbell remains Coach Guns Mahoney. Later the hosts discover the producer row ignored a Mike verbal stumble: because the camera installers never placed a camera behind the Deucers, the crew can play Minesweeper, read ahead, or work a trade offer while not producing. The live trade is called an illegal tampering period. The episode closes with one more Ken Bone Walker reference.
to the fantasy footballers podcast with your host, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcast. It's a fantasy footballer's podcast, if you're nasty. Thank you. I was ready. That's my best friend, Jason Moore. That was going on, Best Friend, Mike, right? Andy's not here today. Yeah. He's okay. He was here today. He was here today, but he is not able to be on the show. So sorry. But now you get like, because this is your questions today and we're going to go wherever we want to go on today's show and dad's not here. Maybe we'll just have a little bit more fun. I'll set a puzzle for everyone. Okay. Andy's missing. He has a lot in common.
with an animated character from a kids movie. That's probably a little too vague. I'll go animated animal. Okay. Okay. Okay. I still, I know the issue and I can't solve the puzzle. Wow, you're not as smart as YouTube. All right. It's his teeth. Jason, it's his teeth. Well, I would have gone maybe Lloyd Christmas, but you do you. It was a toothless reference. Ah. But Lloyd Christmas really would have. Yeah, it happened again, ladies you gentlemen. But he will, he will be back. This time in the front. I wasn't sure we were going to even mention why, but I mean, it happened. It happened. He's going to get repaired. Everything's going to be okay. We think. Let's see. On today's show, I'm going to talk a little bit about draft words. It's not the first time. And it will not. No, it will not be the last time.
There's like, there's no way at this point. Uh, it's a little draft and it is a mailbag show. Not a ton of news, but we will, we'll talk about it. Hey, make sure you check out the ultimate draft kits, uh, ultimate draft kit. Um, you can pre order the regular, the base level or if you want to get on the UDK plus. Just skip all over that. Go, you DK plus. Go to footclan. Oh. Yeah. We're skipping all. Just go to you to go to footclan.com. And. Just become an ultimate Foot Clan member. It's one thing. You get everything we ever do for the whole year, all the highest tier, the every episode, every special recording, every DFS dynasty ranking. Just we don't have anything outside of that. It's easy. Just there won't be pictures of Andy's. No. I mean, you would have to message him and ask for those. Quick question of the day. Or, you know.
hey i them or something but we we won't do that we would never quick question today which players fantasy value are you most worried about being impacted from the NFL draft so this one is purely I'm looking at a very selfish list yes you are this one is purely selfish 100% selfish but the question is Who am I worried about being impacted from the NFL draft? And I think it's going to be Chris Olavi. Chris Olavi is a very good wide receiver, but it is super duper awesome when you're getting 30 plus percent of the target share because you are pretty much the only man in town. And I fully expect the same. He wasn't, though, like towards the end, I mean, Devon Vele, you know, the buy week. So I guess in the game right before the buy week, that's when everything really changed. You had the Rashid Shaheed trade.
And then everyone was like, oh, yeah. Remember when we gave up multiple picks to get Devon Veilay onto our team and he has not played at all? Well, he played five games. And I mean, he was, he was making an impact. But even then, I'm looking, I'm looking, you know, after the bye week later in the season when they had Valey, 30% target share, 28, 29, 39, 41% target share finishes the season with 30% target share. That's not going to happen if you draft Cornell Tate. Valle, after the buy week, was that 21%. Yeah, I mean, but Velae is not one of these top three wide receivers. I think there's a good chance to Saints take one of the top three wide receivers. Okay. And I believe that would have an impact on Olave. Olave is a very good wide receiver. You might argue he is like the world's best wide receiver two. Like he shouldn't really be the wide receiver one for an NFL team. I think he would be awesome next to another stud. But he will be impacted for...
you know, fantasy purposes. This is a guy who you're coming off of a hard to remember. He was the wide receiver six. Yeah. Like that's how good. And he will not be a top six wide receiver if they draft one of those top three guys. And then I think we can name a bunch of people that we're worried about. I like Olave. I'm not worried about him. I think he's a stud. And the situation around him had just really eroded. And you were hoping that. It can be at least okay. His career with Garrett Wilson is just, it's so wild of seeming how just on these parallel lines both of these guys have been going, except now I feel more confident that Olave has taken the off ramp of he has a very strong offensive coach who will give us extra snaps every single game. And I believe in Tyler Shuck. I think perhaps Shuck can't elevate to being one of the
you know, like a top five quarterback in the league, but he looked pretty good to me as a, as a second round pick who was, you know, just finishing off a rookie or with, with, like you said, they weren't flush with top tier weapons. I mean, Juan Johnson's one of their primary past characters. Right. And he's a fine tight end, but he's, he probably shouldn't be featured. I would say, as much as I like it. I mean, if you look at weeks 10 through 17, that's when Tyler Shuck was. you know, starting. You had Olave on a 17-game pace of 109 receptions, 1,464 yards, and 14.5 touchdowns. That's not wide receiver 1 numbers. That's like the wide receiver 1 type of numbers. For me, it's selfish. The most obvious one is Chase Brown, as we had a report right before recording, because we're recording this Monday afternoon, that the Bengals are going to meet with Jeremiah Love.
Now, they are picking at number 10. They are picking at 10, yeah. So you don't think there's any chance they can get there. I said my odds of Jeremiah Love being available at 10, I'm putting it at less than 5%. I mean, obviously you've got to get through a few. I don't believe that the giants are actually going to pull the trigger at 5. Now, I don't think they will have a chance. Well, sure. I mean, the Titans are heavily rumored. And I could see, I think that that is the biggest. trap for him not getting to 10 would be the Titans just take or the they take them right off the bat pick four he's off the board then you get to pick seven with the commanders they could very very much use him I think that he fits their team perfect I love that but they have a lot of needs they need a wide receiver very badly and so maybe they don't draft him then you would have had an issue with Kansas City at nine but they spent the money on Kenbone Walker they're not they're out of the Jeremiah love
right and right before them was the the saints are in there as well and they gave all the money to uh Travis ETN or A-chan we're still trying to figure this one out still trying we want people to know who it is yeah when we say Travis A-chan people as of today will not know who we're talking about yeah it really is difficult because we want to respect the guy's name And, but we also have, people need to know who you're talking about. So it is, it's a difficult thing. We'll see how, because he said, I think, I can't remember. Did he say like he wants it to be that way or he's like, this is what it's supposed to be. He was totally fine with ETN. He's totally fine with ETN. But he also said, it'd be nice if people start saying ancient. It's like, Camara where it's like, was it Alvin, Camara? And he's like, well, I say Camara. My mom says Camara. And you're like, why?
Well, we're trying to help you out here, man. You help us. So we'll figure that one out over the next few weeks. I say tomato. Right. So my selfish one is Chase Brown. I don't think that Jeremiah Love gets there. And this draft is interesting because I don't, there's a, there's of course, there's always plenty of players who are on the hot seat of it seems like they could be easily replaced. Like in this draft, like, uh-oh. danger, danger, your starting spot is up for grabs. I think we're just, I think it's going to be a bunch of surprises of these rookies going to places. Oh, well, I don't know if I totally saw that. So my honest, biggest worry about the draft for who will be impacted the most is the rookies. Because you have the Cleveland Browns and the Jets. And I just, I don't want to keep dunking on them. Right. But if they're probably, if they take two of Carnell Tate.
Jordan Tyson and McKin limit. If two of those guys end up on those two teams, it's going to suck. That will poo-poo all over the drafts. And the thing is, is you don't want to overreact to players going to bad destinations. It's very common that great players go to bad destinations. We still have Garrett Wilson, who at this point, it feels like Garrett Wilson will never, his fantasy production will never equal. what you are looking at on the field of his talent. Yeah, I agree with that. But like AJ Brown back in the day, he went to the Titans. Everyone was really upset because they weren't a good team. And when you look at the draft, you go, okay, the Raiders, they're the worst team in the league. Statistically, they got the number one pick, the Titans, the Giants, the commanders, the Saints. Those are all bottom 10 teams. But I have faith of their improving. Exactly, because they're good organizations.
It's not the same with the Jets and the Browns. It's just not the same. When they go there and those two teams are going to be drafting another wide receiver. So hopefully it's not one of those top three guys. It will suck. It will suck. And I will move them down in my heart and in my ranking. The draft is on the way. So we are just a couple weeks away. Very, very exciting times for the rookies. We'll be talking much more. draft as the weeks go along. Let's get into the news. News and notes from around the league. Kirk Cousins can't stop, won't stop. He has, Jason, hopefully you haven't read this blurb. 321 million in career earnings. He trails only Tom Brady and Matthew Stafford.
in his quest to somehow earn more money than any other player in the NFL. It's an incredible job and the gold jacket goes to Kirk Cousins agent. I mean, he's done great work. Part of that jacket needs to be shared with cousins himself because he held to his guns on, he started back in the day with the first like, I only want guaranteed money. Well, he had to deal with being on Washington of them wherever the breakdown was happening. I think he played two years on a franchise. So it was like, he just kept getting, well, here's full guaranteed money. Okay, here's full guaranteed money. And then he stayed healthy and played well. Like this isn't to to dunk on the career or just crap on Kirk Cousin's career. He has been a good solid quarterback. But when you look at the highest paid quarterback. When you think of the highest paid quarterback. You're like, okay, this guy has taken a team very far in the postseason should have at least a Super Bowl. And yet.
He has the money. It was funny when it first was announced. But he signed with the Raiders. My bad. When the deal came out, it was like signing a 10-year, $150 million deal. It's really basically a one-year, $11.3 million contract that the Raiders are going to owe. Some of the money will be owed from the Falcons. And there is an enormous... like poison pill amount of money on this contract at the end of this off season, almost forcing the Raiders to let him go into free agency. But it's a pretty clever way to have the contract work for the cap space for all teams involved. And then Kirk Cousins will be in the same position next year to sign for more money. Yeah. So he's going to the Raiders. You know, over the last couple months, I think that the Raiders have reiterated.
They want the number one pick to sit. It's going to be Mendoza. They've talked about they want Mendoza to sit, maybe a whole year. I don't know if in today's NFL you can actually sit down the first overall pick for the entirety of the season that it's just, it's a different business now. You used to be able to do that. It's much, much more difficult. Who do you think is the week one starter? Kurt Cousins. I do too. I think Kirk Cousins starts. and probably plays half the season. Kirk played with Coach Coobes up in Minnesota for a couple years. It's a lot of money, so we're joking about Cousins making money. But I think this is solid. You want, if you're going to invest the first pick in a quarterback, having Kurt Cousins here to teach him out of play. And I think that at this point, Cousins will, I think he'll accept that. He always seemed like a solid dude, at least from some videos that we're privy to as the public.
But he understands I'm here for a year. I'm here to redeem my value for free agency for next year. But I'm also going to teach this kid how to be a pro, how to earn as much money as possible. He's going to help him with that. He can teach him so much. What's funny about this is I don't think I've ever seen someone talk about Mendoza as a prospect and not mention Kirk Cousin's name. Not unrelated to this. It's like. Oh, he's like a, he's like a bigger Kirk Cousins. The, uh, the clean mouth. Yeah, it's basically just, oh, it's almost personality. Yeah. It's basically just they're both pretty goober. They're goopers, man. And so you can't find a better mentor for Mendoza. Like does Mendoza get down with Coles cash? For sure. Probably. For sure.
I mean, you know, does he look at the full price and then the markdown? He's like, I can't believe this thing's marked down 50%. When these guys get together, everything's marked down. I'm one week in, one weekend of their relationship being together. There's, there, Kirk Cousers will have a handshake agreement to be the godfather of Mendoza's children for sure. These guys are going to be two peas and a pot. Colesbrose. But from a fantasy perspective, this is really good news for Brock Bowers, I believe. You see a lot of times, we talk about this through great rookie seasons, like Bo Knicks a couple years ago. It was like Bo Nix had a great rookie season, but we always have to like delete the first month because the training wheels were on the first month. Like if you look at his rookie season from week five on, because he's more of a pro then. When you start week one as a rookie quarterback in the NFL, unless you're Cam Newton, it doesn't usually just have prolific.
stat padding for those kind of quarterbacks. And so having the beginning of the season actually be a veteran quarterback most likely, I like that. I like that for Genti. I like that for Bowers. And then when Mendoza does come in, it's halfway through the season. It can hit the ground running more like what we saw from Tyler Shuck last year. Yep. And so I think it actually is important for fantasy. Adam Schaefter has reported the NFL concluded that Chiefs wide receiver Rishie Rice did not. violate the personal conduct policy. If you recall, there was an accusation of violent and abusive behavior filed by the mother of two of his children and former girlfriend. So apparently he will be in the clear least for that. Yeah, there is still an upcoming court case for. Oh, I do not remember this. I believe for the vehicle stuff. Oh, but didn't, he already had the suspension last year. Okay, that was for the vehicle. I thought so. Yeah, if that's the case.
We are free and clear here and until the next issue. He will be on thin ice for suspensions. If anything comes through any sort of perf, he'll be in big trouble. Do you think he is undervalued in like draft rankings? We didn't see a ton because you had the suspension, the first six games for Rushie Rice last year. And then you had the injury of Mahomes. So the end of the year was like, okay, you didn't, but when you had him with Mahomes, he basically like a top 12 wide receiver every single week. He started week seven, which he scored 20 points, 21 points, 16.6, has a down game 6.8, 20.1, 25.4. And then things kind of fell apart. Well, week 15 is when Mahomes went down to injury. So you still had. Yes.
For fantasy football, he will score a lot of points. So yes, in terms of speaking only of that, then yeah, he. Knowing that he's not going to be suspended, it's pretty valuable. We got a report. This one was just made me funny or made me laugh a little bit. It's being reported that Joanne Jennings is asking for too much money. Jennings? What are you doing? He's going to be 29. He is a solid player. Oftentimes solid players believe they should be paid like great players. He should be paid a good amount of money. There's got to be, someone has to have cash for Juan Jans. I think the issue right now. And teams have to want him. Teams would want him, but the issue for him is because he was asking for too much money and didn't get signed early, we are so close to that first wave. We're so close to the draft where there are so many Juan Jennings in this draft. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And those Joanne Jennings will be cheaper. Misplayed his hand. And those Joanne Jennings will be younger. It's like, if I'm a GM, I'm not signing Joanne Jennings right now. If the draft doesn't fall my way and the specific wide receivers I liked, went to other teams and whatever, then I'll go sign them after the draft. But I'd be surprised if he signs before the draft, which means search for news during this show. He'll probably sign. We did get some positive comments about Tank Dell. Oh, my God. Coach Domingo Ryan's. said his status for OTA is uncertain. They expect him at some point this year. Another beat reporter for the Texans, Jonathan M. Alexander said, I expect him to be ready for week one. That would be great. Tank Dell is a good player, and the Texans are better when he's on the field. Yeah, as is C.J. Stroud. All right, we'll take a quick break and be right back with the mailbag. Mailbag. Thank you. Oh, I mean, I didn't even.
Hardware very extraordinary Jay Gris over there holding it down. We'll lose. I wasn't asking for that. I was just telling the people at home, we're never asking for that. Every time that thing is just a frying pan to the face. It's a good jam. He's J. Gris. The problem is it kind of sticks in my head. All right. If you would like to submit a question for future mailbags, just go to the website. Or if you want to do a voicemail, that's 302-464 TFFB. No voicemails today. But we have our first question from Andrew off of IG. It's Bucky Irving. I like this. I think Dynasty Price Check on Bucky Irving is a topical question right now. The question is, should I trade Bucky for the 104 rookie pick, which that's an easy one to put a name to. It's one of the three wide receivers. So it's like you can just run through them.
I would rather have each one of those three wide receivers over Bucky Irving. Okay. What if it's Carnell Tate on the Cleveland Browns? He's the last one left. Yeah, that's what I was just going to say. Carnal Tate goes number six to Cleveland. He will be third in my big three. So he would be this pick for Bucky. And I would take the young top 10 drafted wide receiver. over the smaller fourth round running back that, you know, has had a breakout but also been dealing with injuries. So, yeah, I would rather have the 104 for Bucky. Now, there is a pretty big... They brought Kenneth Gainwell in to compete for touches for Bucky on the Tampa Bee Buccanees. Yeah, there's a fairly large gap between the 104 and the 105 as of now, not knowing how the NFL draft falls.
I feel like you could convince me that Bucky is worth more than the 105, depending on what you think about Sadiq. And honestly, like, I am, I, I, I, we said this on the, we said this on the rookie preview show last week, but I am so, so close to putting stowers ahead of Sadiq. Oh. I feel like I need to do it now because I won't be able to do it after the draft. You know what I mean? Because Sadiq will be. drafted higher or we presume he will over Stowers. Seems like it. I like Stowers more than Steeke. And Bucky is a tough evaluation right now because the breakout of year one and then a deleted year. And now, and the best competition, in my opinion that he's had on the team of Kenny Gainwell. I probably prefer the rookie wide receiver. If you'd, you know, try and do a zoom out real quick.
Don't have the landing spots, but it's like once the landing spots are secure, who's going first in a startup draft? Those three, those three wide receivers or Bucky Irving. It will easily be those three wide receivers. I'm not going easily. Well, it would easily be those three wide receivers for me in a startup because I, I, I, then you should, then you should easily trade Bucky for the 104. Yeah, I would, I don't like building my, if I'm building a dynasty team from scratch. I do not like... Pretty much the first two rounds, I hate when I get a running back. But if I do get a running back of the first two rounds, it's because it's Bejohn. It's because it's one of the most elites. Flip that real quick. You're a contender. You're a contender. Bucky's your RB2 right now. Would you go for it? I'm a contender and Buckley's my RB2? If I'm real contender, he's my RB3. You know what I'm saying? No, he's not. I would say, I would still take the value. I think that hopefully...
I don't believe Carnell Tate, like when I've been mocked drafting, I have Carnell Tate falling to eight to the Saints. And that bypasses, really the big problem is pick six for the Browns. Yeah. Pick six for the Browns is where they can ruin it by taking one of those three guys. They're going to take a wide receiver, but they have plenty of more draft capital later to take one of the guys that I just don't even like already. So I don't think that there's a guarantee one of those three is ruined. I would make the trade. Brian off of IG, he says, why is no one talking about Parker Washington? Parker, Washington, if you do not recall Jacksonville Jaguars, pretty much had a breakout campaign last year. Their wide receiver three or wide receiver two or right? Wide receiver one? Yeah. What is happening? One or two, not sure. And so it's just, you know, they have a dyncy conversation about it. And then there's the follow up is.
Parker Washington worth the 108. I assume this is what I trade the 108 for Parker Washington, which just reading it, that sounds difficult of a guy who, he didn't come out of nowhere. Like we already knew who Parker Washington was, but this level of success feels like it came out of nowhere. But it's Liam Cohen. You guys have shared your thoughts on Bryant Thomas Jr. of perhaps he's not even long for the Jacksonville Jaguars. Just how are you going about valuing Parker Washington and then they had the addition of Jacoby Myers like in the middle of the season? Yeah. So I think Parker Washington is undervalued. Like the second half is when Parker Washington really, it changed after the buy week. I think he's really good. My Felix model had a talent score of 91 on him as a prospect minus draft cap. Oh my. Right.
Now, doing a little back testing. Yeah, that is not as sticky as the actual Felix model with the draft capital, which once you have him, the draft capital, he's like a 45th percentile, which is why you saw two and a half years of him do nothing. He's a sixth round pick. And so, who cares? Now, a breakout can happen and can then be sticky. And that could have happened. More often than not, that draft capital sticks around for just about ever, unless you are, you know, obviously if you puka, if you come out the gates and you've got bad draft capital, but you establish yourself as a superstar right away. Okay, draft capital no longer matters forever. However, when you're breaking out in the back half of year three, you aren't seen as a core foundational piece of a franchise.
You're probably not going to have the team building around you this year, especially with Brian Thomas Jr. there. So I would rather have the 108, but that does not mean that I think Parker Washington's current value is, he is good. He is better than what his value is. But I think there's a gap there between the 108's going to be probably a second round wide receiver. Yeah, it will be. After the bye week. Parker Washington's pace was 1,200 yards, and that includes a game he got hurt and only played 38% of the snaps. And then the week he came back, he only played 45% of the snaps as he was ramping back in. The second half was fantastic for Parker Washington. He's in the final year of his contract. So Jacksonville, if you're looking at this from Dynasty, Jacksonville is going to have to make a decision of...
Their decision is made with Brian Thomas Jr. What they do with them. Because they have to. They up, they reupped Jacoby. They have to pick one of those two. Right. So, yeah, maybe they'll be, they'll be playing for their, for the contract. Yeah. I mean, they always are. I'm not, I'm not trading the 108 for Parker, Washington. I'm like, it might, it might be fair. But being a year three guy and then having that breakout over the second half. I'm not willing to take on the probability risk that Parker Washington, that was the best year of his career. That is one of the possibilities. Yeah, because, I mean, we haven't even mentioned Travis Hunter because he's a cornerback, wide receiver, but that's more competition there as well. All right. We got the next question is from Tony off of IG. Dynasty Valley for Kyron Williams, 25 and a half. He's in year five.