THE UNOFFICIALFOOTBALLERSFAN ARCHIVE↗Transcript links use the exact YouTube video’s clock. Machine transcripts can contain errors.
Jason answers the Never Again prompt with Breece Hall, says he wants out but cannot quit the talent and pass-catching hope, predicts one big Week 1 will restore 'we're back,' and finally declares himself out only until draft day before reverting to TBD.
Andy says Kyler Murray has reached Never Again because a quarterback with those tools should work but often does not. The old eleven-rushing-touchdown season is remembered only before drafts and jokingly discarded as unreal, while bad Kyler games both start and finish slowly.
Mike names Jalen Waddle as the player he cannot stop drafting, insists Waddle is good-to-great, watches an F consistency grade become a proposed G, and still takes him over George Pickens while imagining the gross face that would accompany the pick.
A vivid Trending or Ending package earns immediate praise, and the hosts say hiring a graphics person finally made the old graphics hand thirsty enough to step up, spend more than six minutes, and improve after ten years.
The phrase top-six running back followed by Kyren Williams's consecutive RB6 finishes creates a three-six pattern, and the desk declares that Jason can see a 666 faster than anybody.
The hosts ask Owl how his season went after noting that Kyren managers won championships. Jeremy says it went well, confirms he had Kyren and has a trophy, and the published Deucers Alley cut shows him raising a translucent pink-purple football-shaped trophy from the right workstation.
The hosts compare Alvin Kamara near age 30 to an unkillable cockroach and say he will permanently remain a Trending or Ending question until he is not merely ending but fully washed.
Jason explicitly says he has shifted from his historical anti-rookie-tight-end position. After consecutive exceptional rookie hits and changing NFL integration, he now targets fresh late-round rookies ahead of veteran bets such as Dalton Kincaid that have already failed.
When the hosts reach the last portion of the draft, quartile is corrected into Jason's established 'turtile' language. They then turn reduced fear of rookie tight ends into a mock ceremony of being open and opening their hearts.
Complete review of the published episode and targeted direct-video frames shows only Mike, Jason, and Andy at the main desk: Mike is left in a red NASA hoodie and gray-tan cap, Jason is center in a black shirt, black cap, and glasses, and Andy is right in a gray shirt and white cap. The black bear at 00:04 belongs to the generic opening montage, the five-human WITH THE DUCERS card is a produced title image, and the large green-purple Fantasy Faceoff helmet is a static desk prop; none is Jay Griz or a cardboard-bear appearance. The hosts turn a Never Again prompt into three admissions of irresistible draft temptation. Jason wants out on Breece Hall but remains hopeful, predicts one big Week 1 will make him say 'we're back,' and finally declares himself out only until draft day. Andy says Kyler Murray should work, discards the old eleven-rushing-touchdown stat until it can tempt him again, and describes games that start and finish slowly. Mike keeps insisting Jalen Waddle is good even after an F becomes a proposed G and says he would make a gross face while drafting him. A directly published TRENDING OR ENDING bumper then fills the screen with purple, cream, and green animation, a football streak, repeated typography, three host cutouts in neon-retro streetwear, and cassette-boombox-VHS-like props. The hosts credit a newly hired graphics person with making the old graphics hand spend more than six minutes and improve after ten years. Kyren's paired RB6 finishes activate Jason's instant 666 detector. During the resulting championship tease, the camera cuts to Deucers Alley: a producer in white sits center, the left chair is empty, and Jeremy at right in a neon yellow-green polo, cap, and headphones raises a translucent pink-purple football trophy while answering that he rostered Kyren and has a trophy. Kamara becomes a cockroach that age cannot kill and is forecast to remain in Trending or Ending until he is simply washed. Jason then explicitly reverses his historical anti-rookie-tight-end doctrine and prefers fresh late-round rookies to failed veteran bets such as Dalton Kincaid. The segment closes by recalling Jason's 'turtile' language and opening the hosts' hearts to rookie tight ends. No player image or illustrative insert accompanies any of those desk stories.
to the fantasy footballers podcast with your host, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright. Oh, welcome in. Tuesday, March 18th, the fantasy footballers, Mike Wright, Jason Moore. I'm Andy Holloway. Happy to be with you. Fun show today. Good quick question, and we've got NFL news that we'll catch you up on next week. We're recording this show a little bit early. So if, you know, we have a trickling in of a few more free agent signings. We'll cover it then. We have, they heard the free agent part two. Yeah, there was not that much. The trickling in can just trickle right into the sewer. Right. It was not a frenzy is what we said. There were some things to talk about.
But we'll catch up on the news next week. We have trending or ending on the show today. That's going to be the main event. We'll talk about some player trends and whether you believe that they will continue or not. It's always fun to debate these. I saw the first name on the list and it was a player we were talking about last off season is maybe having, you know, I know Jason had some confidence in a change and it didn't happen. Infinite sadness right now. So we'll get into that. A reminder of the giveaway right now, a sign Drake, London jersey at footclane giveaway.com. It's free to enter. And the Ultimate Draft Kit available at ultimate draft kit.com. You can get it at pre-order pricing right this minute. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure you subscribe, click that bell. If you are listening on Apple Podcast or Spotify, click that follow button. Leave us a review if you have a couple of moments. It really helps the show out.
And we'd appreciate it. And you can follow us on X at the FF Ballers. Jason is at Jason FFL. Mike is at FF Hitman and I'm at Andy Holloway on there. Quick question of the day. It's a fun one. We've all been there. Kyle on X writes in and says, who is a player you said in all caps? Never again yet still continue to pick in your drafts. Oh, man. For me, it's Breeze Hall. You're still. I, so still on which side? What do you mean by still? I mean still that you will draft this, man. You have, I don't know that you've said a kind word about Breece Hall and bitterness is powerful. Yeah, well, I don't know that he's given me anything to say, yeah, we're back. Yeah. Well, this is, this is the type of thing where it's like I. Do you feel like you did this last year?
Is that what you're saying? Is that you felt like you... I've been disappointed in him. I was disappointed this past year, dealt with it a lot, and I feel like I want to be out. But I'm not entirely sure I'm out because he is a talented player. He is a good pass catcher. You know, and I'm still hopeful. He is an RB1 being drafted on Underdog. Is he an RB1? RB11. Yeah, back in. These are just the kind of things that you say to a man who... tries to quit something and can't quit. That feels a little high. But I mean, we, you know, we have seen him be so special on the NFL field and he is still so young. What's the trick in changing expectations for a player? Because I think that's actually the greatest challenge that we're talking about here is you expect, you have expectations for a player's level, tier, whatever you want to call it. And maybe they're not.
what you thought they were, but they are still valuable, but you have to, like, do you feel like you can ever get rid of those expectations because you have been so invested in Bruce Hall in the past? Like, that's why he's the... Yeah, on a personal level, I can get rid of those expectations for sure. I don't have the expectations that he's going to be the number one running back. You know, two years ago, who's the number four running back? I'll tell he has a big week one. Oh, yeah. And then, oh, we're back. Yeah, but I, um, You know, it's just a matter of, you're right, it's about the expectations. And I think that people need to adjust a little bit quicker and lower. So I feel like putting him down at RB11 is, that's a big adjustment. Would you, Mike, draft him at RB11? Do you think that that's, you know, what is your expectation for his finish? Um, RB 11. I would not. You won't? Sorry, I would not at RB 11. No.
Trying to pull it up so I can see who's going. Not with Braylon Allen there and Justin Fields taken over. He finished at RB17 last year. His yards per carry have gone down every year for the last three efficiency-wise. Somehow, Briseau has no 1,000 yard seasons yet. So you've also got an injury, you know, year one, yes. Well, not a thousand on the ground, right? Right. I mean, he says to have a thousand total scrimmage yards. Yes. Naji Harris has four consecutive thousand on the ground seasons. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. It's one of those things where, to me, it's adjusted expectations. He also fumbled the ball six times last year. That's crazy. That's crazy. So going right behind Brees is Kyron, who we're going to talk about in a second. I'd much rather have Kyle. Chase Brown. As it is now. With things stand right now, I would take Chase Brown. But Chase Brown going at RB 13. And James Cook. I would take James Cook as well. Brown to 13 is people are hedging of.
Just in case Cincinnati drafts the running back. Camara's behind him. Kid Walker's behind him. Oh, man. See, I don't actually know. Maybe I just don't like that area for Brees. New head coach, new quarterback. I'm out. Until draft day. Yeah, I mean, TBD. Okay. So, I mean, Brees last year, 209, 209 attempts, 876 yards on the ground. Do you, are you Braille and Allen fans? I like Braylin Allen, yes. Like Braylin Allen could take over, Ethan? No, no, no, no, no. You don't believe that. No, I think he's a NFL player. Isn't this, uh, which he, I mean, like a guy who should be an NFL player. He plays in the NFL. I mean, we, we could say that about every guy who's in the NFL. Isn't this the final year before they have to make a fifth year option decision on Brise Hall? Bristall is a second rounder. Oh yeah. He doesn't even have it. Uh, yeah. So he is in. Wait, so he'll go, he'll be free agency.
Are we year four? Yeah, this is going to be year for. Yeah, so this is contract year. Yeah, there was all the reports of they don't know if they're going to try and sign him early. That feels like it hangs over a little bit in terms of how you might use them. They're going to make him work. I'm almost there with Kyler. And I am with you. Are you? Dude. I think I'm at the never again. Last year. It's hard to pass on Kyler in the middle rounds because of what. Should be? What should? I think that's the right way to put it. It's not even could. It is it should be. Yes. Yes. It's like when he doesn't perform, that is a complete shock because of the tool set and the fact he can run the football. And yet it happens so often where, look, I think the real come to Jesus moment on Kyler last year was a dominating victory against Chicago at home. And he was.
a single digit fantasy quarterback. It told me that what once was, which was the Cardinals can't win without this exact certain game plan from Kyla Murray with the rushing yardage in the passing game. Yeah, they can't. And they're working to improve their defense again. It's strange. I mean, everything goes with the quarterback. I just think I'm getting close to that point where I don't want to make him that steal that he should be in the middle rounds. And I might just want to pass on that. and try something else. I mean, half of the first 10 games for Kyler, he was 20 or more points. This is literally how it always is with Kyler. There's always, like, if you don't want to give that line, go ahead and give, go ahead and tell us where his fantasy finishes have been in the past. Yeah, like on his career? Yeah, go and let us know where he's been before. He started seven.
His rookie year. Yeah. Quarterback seven. Has the incredible year where he's the quarterback two. Quarterback two. Almost 4,000 passing yards, over 800 rushing yards. Eleven rushing touchdowns. I do not remember that at all. Do you guys remember that? Eleven rushing touchdowns? I only remember it right before I draft. Did that happen? No. That can't be a, yeah. That's not a real stat. I'm throwing that away. Yeah. No, that happened. If you disagree with it, it's gone. How did? I mean, it was pre-ACL, right? I mean, yes, it was pre-ACL, but the next year was five rushing touchdowns. I mean, to go from what he did as a sophomore to where we are now with Kyler is, it's extremely disappointing. Do you have thoughts on Kyler, Jay? This is a perfect answer to the question because when you miss out on the studs at the position,
and you're looking for someone later, you know, there were only three players who had more rushing yards than Kyler did last year at the quarterback position. And so that's the type of asset you want in fantasy football. It's the type of ammo that talks you into a pick for sure. Yeah, and I could easily see myself drafting him again. Yeah, because we can all easily see it. It should work. Because it should work. If Marv takes a step. You got Tray McBride. If Marf takes a single step forward and becomes a thousand yard and how many touchdowns? If he's a thousand and eight and eight and eight, and then Trey McBride is doing his thing like, ugh. But now you're probably in a category, you know, Kyler's probably going ahead of Herbert, right? I can tell you in just a moment. Let's do the same game. In basketball right now is the QB9. Okay. You said Herbert?
Yeah. Yeah, QB 13. See, that's why he will continue to be drafted. Maybe he should, but it's because you're like pocket quarterback decision versus the rushing upside of Kyler. Yeah. But what we saw last year and being from Arizona and watching this team, it's like Kyler has games that he looks like the MVP of football. Yeah. And then he has games where he starts slow. But don't worry, he will also finish that game slow. He won't change mid-game. It's unbelievable how bad he can be in certain games where it looks like he can't see the field. It looks like he can't see over his offensive line or know what's happening. But then other games, he carves up a defense, you know, like he's brilliant. 47.1% of his games, of his last 17 games, he scored 20 fantasy points.
That's a C inconsistency. It has been a very not fun process to have Kyler. And so this is one of those where, yeah, you don't want that experience. You shouldn't hitch your fantasy team to Kyler. But at wagon. Yes. Yeah. But where he's getting drafted, there's just not other people that have that dual threat upside. Stretch run last year in playoffs for Kyler. Quarterback 23, 18, 11, 22, 13, 14. Oh, dude, Stroud's at QB 17? Oh, man, people are mad at C.J. Stroud. Foof. Name some quarterbacks around. Going around Stroud? Yeah, right above him. Right above Stroud would be. Is Trevor Lawrence above him? No, one pick behind. Drake May. Drake May is ahead of Stroud, Dak. Bo Knicks. Bo Knox. Bo Nix is QB7. People.
People are all in on Bo Nix. Are you going with Bo Nix just to detour here? Is that how much do you think of him like you thought of Stroud or do you have more confidence in Bo Nix? I think I have more confidence in Bo Nix. Because he had a rookie year that was more impressive than Bo Nix, but Bo Nix had a great year. Not for fantasy. Stroud did not have a fantasy productive rookie season that was. Really valuable. Was Knicks actually better that? Oh, as a rookie? Yeah, Knicks had a very good. 316 points. I'm looking at this real quick. Yeah. But it was because Bo Nix runs the ball. Again, you need that dual threat. He had 430 rushing yards. Oh, man, it's actually a big difference. Yeah. Oh, no, I guess not that big. 275 to 3. That was a roller coaster there. Yeah, I looked at last year for Stroud and he was at 220.
But 275 versus 316 and half point. That's a big gap. Four point quarterback. Sorry, I just wanted to see that number. That was just the, that is a shocking correction to me on Stroud. It feels like it could be an overcorrection, but you also have to keep in mind they lost Tank Dell. Yeah. They're, you know, the, the wide receivers are worse. They're offensive line right now. They've deleted it. They've traded their star left tackle. So it. It's hard to imagine Stroud being a fantasy star next year. But you'd both lock in Kyler Murray over CJ Stroud. I would. Yes. Yeah. So the never again player that you continue to pick, Mike, I said Kyler, Jason said Breece. Who's your name? Kyler is a great answer. For me, it's Jalen Waddle. Writing's already on the wall? Because he is good. He is a good player. And three. That'll get you.
Well, I mean, honestly, for fantasy football, it is one of the things that I want in my players is I want to believe that they're a good player. And I fully believe that Jalen Waddle is a good to great wide receiver. He was the wide receiver seven and fantasy three years ago. We've had the two down years. This is the Terry McClure and DJ Moore argument, which is like, we all said never again to those guys, we kept draft them because you knew they're actually good players. And then eventually. The situation corrected itself for DJ Moore and Terry, and we had incredible fantasy football seasons for them. I don't know what the Miami offense is going to be. Are we going to have any shift back to them pushing the field vertically like they were two years ago, or is this the new normal for them where they want to run a lot and they want to throw the ball short to H.N. and Jonu Smith, but Waddle is good.
We'll continue to draft him. Yeah, you feel the temptation will not be resisted. Man, no. 23% of his games. Oh, it was. The benchmark. That is a consistency score of an F. I'd give him lower if I could. Can we, can we F minus? Can we G this guy? Yeah, so that's, that's going to be a tough one to draft. Jalen Waddle, what if I? told you that right now in bestball, he's the wide receiver 31. Okay, let's do the same experiment. Who's going right above him? Right above him would be Christian Olavé, Jordan Addison, Rishi Rice. I would take all three over in the water water. Yeah, I would too. Rice is... Who's going behind him? Rice is difficult with the legal situation that we just don't know yet. Yeah, who's going behind. Cortland Sutton, who I think I would take Sutton over Waddle, Chris Godwin, who will
probably rapidly rise. Yeah. He will not stay at 33. And then Pickens is at 34. Would you go Waddle or Pickens? I think I'd go Waddle. Both would, both, I'd make a gross face with both picks. Yep. I'd be like, but he's good. He is good. He is good. Look, you talk about a course correction on Stroud. That's going to be the reaction to Miami's offense. It's like, Tua was a very good quarterback at the end of the year. But their fantasy production was very, very bad. Yes. I think he was like a record-setting completion percentage over the very back part of the year, if I'm not mistaken. Well, when you're just slightly tossing a ball forward. Even fantasy-wise, he had QB, 2, 5, and 4 in back-to-back-to-back weeks.
But he's, you know, it's seven a completion, but 317 yards, 365 yards, 331 yards. How are you putting up three straight games of over 300 passing yards? When he came back. When you're not going down the field. 74% completion. I mean, 74%. But there are points four as a team down nine a game from number two to 22. Open it back up. They've got to figure some stuff out. Well, we'll be talking about offenses and whether they're willing to open it back up here in a second. We'll take a break and we'll jump into trending or ending. All right. Andy Mike and Jason here, the fantasy football is ready to break down some interesting numbers and some interesting players and what we believe going into 2025. Trending or ending. Yeah, the graphics are on an absolute heater right now.
The graphics have been very good. Somebody has decided to step it up. Yeah. About time. And I don't know why. It took 10 years. I mean, this is what happens when you hire a graphics person. Oh, to work here in the studio. Your old guy who's doing graphics is like, uh-oh. Uh-oh. Getting a little thirsty. I got to step up my game. I will commit more than six minutes to this one. Oh, I can still see the picture of the judges. The judge's hair over my hair. That was the beginning of the end. That was. All right. Trending or ending? This is going to be a big discussion here. These are all, by the way, we're looking at multi-season trends. So two years. The last two years are these trends continuing or are they ending? And it's Patrick Mahomes. He's had two consecutive years.
with fewer than 30 passing touchdowns that has moved him from the must have always fewer than 28 passing touchdowns. Sure. Yeah, it's been a big adjustment for the chiefs. Now they were Super Bowl champions in 2023, runners up in 2024. But you've got a fantasy quarterback that was the QB8 and this year the QB 11. You talked about our consistency rankings. He is an F, 23% of the time above 20 points. We're talking about a player that was a huge part of the conversation every week in fantasy to a player that was barely talked about last year. Right? I mean, this was not somebody we were eager to start at any point. Frustrated to watch the games. You talked about Miami not airing it out.
That is the story in Kansas City. Kyler was better. I mean, for how, we just had a whole tirade of how the season felt awful for fantasy purposes for Kyler. And it was a better overall fantasy season than Patrick Mahomes. And it is, it is terrifying to, like you still, he won't get overcorrected like Stroud. Where is Mahomes going? An underdog right now, the QB6. I think that sounds about fair for someone who can do what Mahomes is doing, but you're three years removed from that actually happening. And so, Jay, are you taking that chance at QB6 or is this the, is this who it is? Is this the trend? So the issue that I have, there's like two different things you can look at, one that makes it feel like a trend and one that makes it feel like it's going to end. If you want to look at touchdowns,
Right. Touchdowns are one of those things that some years you have a bunch, some years it's down. He went from 50 to 26 in years two and three of his career. So they fluctuate and then back up to 38, 37. Yeah. And you go back and you look at Tom Brady. Tom Brady went 50 in 2007. The next full season, 28. He wasn't bad at football. That was halfway through his career. Then 36, 39, 34, then 25. Like, those things happen. The touchdowns are not as predictable as all the other stats. And they're supposed to be for Patrick Mahomes. But I believe his touchdowns will rise. I think those will come back up. The issue that makes it feel like a trend is the style of football that he's playing and the yards per attempt. That's one of those things where he was always living in the eights.
You know, 8.1, 8.8, 8.3, 8.1. Those were his yards per attempt. And that's just how he played football. And he bypassed the sevens, basically. And now last year, 6.8 yards per attempt. He didn't even hit 4,000 passing yards. So it's really hard for me to take him at quarterback six, you know, with. Well, and combined yards per attempt going down and total attempts declining four consecutive years. So you're passing less for fewer yards. While winning Super Bowls and getting to Super Bowls. So this isn't like a, we've got to fix. The Kansas City Chiefs in any read are not thinking that they have a problem to fix. I agree with you. They don't have a problem to fix. See, some people think because of the embarrassing Super Bowl loss, that means that they're going to completely try to reset the offense. I don't know if that's true. I think genuinely, I don't think Patrick Mahomes is playing.
at the same level. He's still great, but I don't think he's playing at the same level. And I don't think we've had one single conversation where we blamed him for Travis Kelsey's production. Because Kelsey's got the crutch of, you can automatically just point at age. Yeah. But we've never once said, okay, could Mahomes have had anything to do with Kelsey's decline in production? Interesting. Yeah. And when you watch, he does not look as good. You know, there were a bunch of plays. Obviously, the Super Bowl, that pass rush really ate him alive. You don't want to make one game be, you know, who he is. But he did not look as good as he used to. If you want to look at a kind of a more objective metric for the quarterback play, his passerating has been lower the past two years than the previous five by a decent margin. It's not bad. He's still great.
But this is a fantasy discussion on whether the trend continues or ends, and I am on the trend continues category. I am as well. I will not be drafting him at quarterback six. Andy, you'd be out on that. Yeah, that's too high. That's just too high. Some context here would be so you could bypass Mahomes and go Bo Nix, Baker, Kyler. Mahomes at six is, that's a tricky situation. When you just read those names. What that said to me was I want a top five quarterback. And, you know, we're always, you know, late round quarterback and trying to find the Jaden Daniels. The steel at the end. And maybe there will be some that are much later that I think have the value to use my early picks on more premium positions. But at the same time,
The way that these mobile quarterbacks, you know, the Josh Allen, Jalen Hertz over the last couple years, Lamar Jackson this last year, Jaden Daniels, they are really the ones on rosters winning championships. They really are. And so Jaden Daniels, late round, great, that works. But you've got to find that this year. And fantasy drafters, we're getting smarter and smarter and smarter every single year. There's not the... glaring obvious mistakes where you're like, that's clearly who it should be. I mean, obviously this last year, there was one. And, you know, that was one of your my guys. It felt like we returned a little bit to finding that nugget with Jaden Daniels because, I mean, it was like Lamar and Allen in years past. It felt like we got back there a little bit with, but I mean, you obviously have to pick the right one. It wasn't, I mean, people were drafting Stroud. People were drafting Anthony Richardson and those were not the right ones.
This player, the tier could be too low, but I think it's interesting. Who has better passing stats at the end of the year? We're talking, you know, yardage and touchdown. Mahomes or Matthew Stafford, who has just added Devante Adams. And subtracted Cooper Cod. Right. I'm just saying. Is that addition by subtraction? No, no, no. I'm saying you can't just simply be like he added Devante Adams. Now his past, his core is so much better because he also took a massive hit. I'm only chuckling because Adams was good. I know how you love that guy, man. Adams loved that Cooper Cup. Adams was objectively good last year. And Cooper Cup, at least for that the end of the season was objectively not. I would still take Mahomes. Okay. Stafford has the Stanford has the.
personnel to have big games, but he's had that for a while. And Stafford still just muddles around. I mean, what was his numbers list? The numbers were not great, but you have to go back a while. You know, it's the first year when he was with the Rams, he had the sensational almost 5,040 touchdowns. I can't go back with him. Stafford has not been. 20 touchdowns, 24, 10. That's what I was going to say. It's the touchdown throwing that has been his fantasy problem. Right. But was that a Cooper Cup problem? I think that was a Kyron Williams problem. I think, you know, the touchdowns on the ground when they get near the goal line, they're very good at that. Kyron Williams, trending or ending, top six fantasy running back. He has finished as the RB6 and back to back. Oh, no. Don't do it, Karen. Don't do it. More than the best. Jason can see a 666 faster than anybody.
I mean, look. You know your numbers, man. Yeah, that's scary. Trending or ending Kyrin as a top six fantasy running back. When you predict a fantasy finish for a running back, it is about that player, but it's also about your confidence in other players. And I feel like if I say ending, I'm a Kyrin hater. That is what I will label you. I feel like I've been labeled that before. So are you going to say trending then? But I'll go into it. Yeah, you're a Chiron hater. Yeah. You are and always have been. I guess so. I mean, he was. I think the reason you hate him is because 82% of his games were great. And he has an A consistency. And if you had him, you won championships. Right. And I don't like any of that stuff. You just kept winning. Owl, how did your season go?