The TRUTH: WRs Part 2 + Where’s Jason? - Fantasy Football Podcast for 2/4

to the fantasy footballers podcast with your host, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright. Oh, welcome in. Andy Holloway, Mike Wright, the fantasy footballers. How you doing, Mike? I'm, look, I'm good. How you doing? I had a lovely weekend. Oh, me too, man. Just getting this show recorded. The people on audio have no idea what's going on. Tuesday, February 12th. What a great show. Got deucers alleys cracking up back there. February 12th. Whatever. February 4th. Whatever, man. Yeah, I don't know why I said that. I guess I'm a little distracted. Just like, wait, who's missing? Jason's not here. Well, he is. I see his laptop. He's here. I see his chair is kind of.

sideways yeah like a man who evacuated the his seat yeah we were about to hit record yeah but he's not here no he is in the is in the slack saying there's no way you guys are this is a fake out you're faking me out so he'll be joining us they'll be joining us whenever got a new award winner trophy has changed hands the uh toilet trophy is now positioned center pocket If this is a really questionable decision to start, Al, are you feeling good about this call? Oh, yeah. To get the show recorded. We can't be late. We have a timeline to stick to. Uh, so we're, we're, uh, just kicking things off here, Mike. Yeah. What is, what is today's show? Well, today is the, uh, the poop, uh, the truth. The truth of the wide receiver position part two, not number two. Right.

Right. That's someone else. Somebody else is in the middle. I, this is definitely a low for us. This is a low. This is a low for you and me personally. This is a low for the deucers. No, this is, this is fantastic. I mean, it's February. Let's just, we'll get into the content. Jason Moore will be here eventually. Jason more when he is done, we're doing whatever he's doing. Yeah. Oh my goodness. He'll show up. He'll be here soon. You're saying we kicked this. Yeah, there was no football. There was a Pro Bowl, I guess. Oh, my gosh. I saw some clips online of like the receivers putting on gigantic hands and trying to catch a ball. There's no way that our audience wants to hear from you and I about the Pro Bowl instead of Luca Donjich.

Yeah, well, I mean, I know more about that than I know about the Pro Bowl. The Pro Bowl is a travesty. I don't know why they're wearing giant hands. I don't know why they are. Oh, what do we got here? We've got it. You got to hit your button over there. You dirty, dirty sons of guns. How you doing, buddy? Unbelievable. You guys. Oh, my gosh. Do you believe we did this? Did you think it was that it was still a goof even as you were walking in? No, I... Look at the time, man. Oh, my gosh. We're doing it live. This is ridiculous. When I... This is so mean. It's so brilliant. I can't believe. I'm so proud of you guys right now. Oh, gosh, darn it. Welcome to the show, Jason. Oh, I'm so red.

Oh, you are. Oh, my gosh. Well, so let me tell you something. I don't know what you guys talked about. Not much. But I'm, you know, right before the show. Yeah. Mike's not in here yet. Wally gagging lazy man. I was getting ready for the show. I'm thinking, man. I knew something. There were some problems in the tummy. And I was like, I'm going to go ahead and take care of business now. And it was a great decision because I desperately needed to. Yeah, I get it. And then I tell you guys like, hey, this prob's in here. You said quote. Yeah, go to show great. I have made a very important and wise decision. I have a strong feeling I will be in here for more than a minute or two. Yes. And so then a minute later, I hear. Oh, whoa.

Welcome in. And I went, no. I thought at first, I thought that's a good joke. I thought you were just sitting here and doing that so I could hear it. And then I kept hearing some laughs and some giggles and I was like, did they really do it? They're doing it. They left me on the toilet. Oh, man. So yes. So now I get the Deucers Alley trophy. Yeah, you got the trophy. Unreal. Welcome in. Well, I'll tell you what. There is a chance I do not finish the show. So jokes on you. And I'm just, and at this point, we're not pausing. He's more of a, I'll just take off. Duke. I won't say one word. No, Duke of Donchish. Yeah. Oh, goodness. We do have a wide receiver episode and I'm so glad you could be here. Yeah, me too. You still in shock. Yeah. Well, no, I'm good for the time being. Give me another 10 minutes. This is an all timer. Well, we were going to briefly comment on the Lucan News. Dirty dogs. Yeah, man.

Yeah. You would do it. Oh, I would do it. I told you, I'm proud of you. This is brilliant. The producers are dying. They've been dying for five minutes now. Oh, man. Oh, man. Well, yeah, there was there was really big news not in the NFL. And we all, we all are NBA fans. Mm-hmm. Casual. And I was 100% certain, just quick reactions. I know this is not an NBA show, but I've already heard from enough people that want our quick reactions to that trade. Because it is the single most shocking, surprising trade in any sport that I can recall. I mean, I remember being a Sons fan in 1992 and the Sons got Charles Barkley for nothing. Yeah. That was great. I remember Ricky Williams getting traded for every draft pick that existed. Oh, for the Saints? For the Saints. Yeah.

But this one, when it broke, I'm laying in bed. You know, for a lot of East Coasters, they were asleep. They woke up to it. And I was 100% certain that Shams got hacked. Oh, for sure. Because it did not. And still to this moment has not made one ounce more sense than the moment I read it. Yeah, Patrick Mahomes was just traded, you know, for, what would the equivalent be? Like an above average. Matthew Stafford? Yeah, Stafford. He's a Super Bowl winner. Yeah, trade him for Stafford. Doesn't make sense. Why would you do that? I mean, Lucas, and I can't stand Lucas. He's a big fat baby. Yes. Invis is on the fat. But he's 25 years old. He's 20. He is a generation. He's a top five talent in the NBA who is with whatever franchise. He is the face of whatever franchise for a decade. And you don't, those guys don't get traded. You can't acquire those guys. And.

Here's the craziest part. If one of those caliber players were to ever get traded, the amount of haul that they would, I mean, you put that on the, you go to your general manager group chat and you just say, hey, guys, I'm thinking about, uh, yeah, I'm thinking about putting Luca out there. You're going to have 31 offers in minutes. And they just go and they trade them for Jack squad. There's not even that many teams. Oh, how many are in the NBA? Is it 30? My Jamar Chase looks pretty good now, doesn't it? Pretty good. Mike, you were as shocked as everybody else. Yeah, I was with you. I thought it was fake. I think I even saw it and didn't post it into our basketball channel because I'm like, you don't want to be. You're not getting me on this one. And then you post it. And I'm like, I guess this is real. And then I didn't want to share it to my other friends groups because I thought.

This is fake and people are going to laugh about how dumb this trade is. Not that Luca got traded, but just the compensation is it doesn't make any sense. I, yeah, I was shocked. It was crazy. Controversial opinion, but genuinely, I'm not even sure Dallas fans. Like, if you won a title with AD, but you lose Luca as the face of your franchise for the next 12 years. I'm not even sure you're happy. I guess you should be happy, but I don't know if you are happy. It's very weird. Well, you know, there's rumors that this is to make them worse on purpose. Mission accomplished. I've seen those. Those seem too many layers into the conspiracy. You're down the rabbit hole, but like at this point. What other explanation makes sense? I mean, if you're not trying to make your team worse, then you did a bad job.

If you're trying to make your team worse, you, I mean, A plus. All right. Here's some NFL news. News and notes from around the league. The Raiders, they hired Chip Kelly as their offensive coordinator. This is awesome. I'm really a little bit confused as to the pairing between Pete Carroll and Chip Kelly. I mean, obviously two historically great collegiate head coaches. Right. Getting together. But. You know, Pete Carroll's been a defense and run the ball type of head coach. And Chip Kelly is a fast pace, a no huddle, a high scoring, great plays. I mean, in his few years, and he didn't have great quarterback play when he was a head coach or when he was with San Francisco or Philly. And you're talking about top five in rushing offenses in...

points. He had some really good things for fantasy football. So I was really hoping this cycle would have Chip Kelly back into an offensive coordinator position. And it's, I like that it goes to the Raiders in the sense that this is a team that, I don't know, prior to this, I'm not excited about after this. Maybe we've got some fantasy gold there. Well, and it'll be interesting to see what they find in the draft quarterback. Do they find a running back? You got Brock Bowers. More importantly. Well, just for this show. The Buccaneers. Liam Cohen's gone, guys. I don't know if you know. Duval. Which I analyzed it again, and it really takes it over the top is watch the eyebrows. Why is that what he does the do? Because one is, I think it's like one is up, you know, kind of like the rock. And then it's due and then Vol, the other one flies up. So you've been spending some time with this. I told you. I can't get enough. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Well, the Buccaneers need an offensive coordinator with Liam Cohen departing. So they have promoted. Josh Grizzard. Jay Grizz. You can't make this stuff up. Sometimes things just come together for the sake of this show. Josh Grizzard. The grizzler. As Mike calls him the grizzler. New offensive coordinator, the eighth one for Baker Mayfield. Come on, Baker. You could do it again. He can. He's used to it now. Two years with the same coordinator, Mike. might be very difficult for him at this point. We have a new offensive coordinator for the Jets. It was the Lions passing game coordinator, Tanner Ingstrand. So the Lions have lost a lot of coaching this off season. I mean, this is what happens. And that's what makes the loss just even tougher, is you knew that things were going to get pillaged there. And the Cowboys hired Clayton Adams, a former Cardinals offensive line coach.

to be their new OC. It was a surprising move, but the Cowboys, they do their own thing, man. At least they're not the Mavs. That is true. I mean, Jerry's feeling real good right now in Texas. He's like, yeah. Or bad. Maybe he's out of the spotlight. Yeah, he thinks he wants it. Remember when he took over the world with that we're not going to stop the sun for being in your eyes thing? Yeah. No, no, now it's all Luca. We will have a full in-depth coaching changes episode. It's coming up here pretty soon. You're going to be there for all of that? Yeah, TBD, you know? It's like when was the last time I ate Chipotle would be the question that I would ask you. Which was the day? Oh, man. It tastes good. We'll have, we'll have that episode coming out where we dive deep. We're waiting for a couple more hires to happen. You're waiting for Kell and more to officially get hired by the Saints. See, that's the rumor mill is like essentially it's, it's his job.

But nothing's official. Do you believe Dallas could be the Schottenheimer or Clayton Adams? Do you think this is placeholder? Do you think this is the bridge? Because they're starting to be, you know, like, is this the waiting for Dion? Because it would look bad on Dion if he left right after his son leaves Colorado. Or is this waiting for Belichick has to have a year in North Carolina? Or is this waiting for? Well, they could have bought. I thought that Belichick had like a $10 million. Oh, yeah, he had a buyout, but maybe that. Also, just from perception. didn't have a job. Like, he could have been hired. So that's, I don't, when you're talking about Jerry Jones, I don't think it's wrong to think what, what's the master plan? Yeah, what circus show does he have lined up? But, like, looking out there, it's, I don't know. Does he have time for bridge years? No, I don't think so. I think he's hiring Schottenheimer to be the head coach going forward. Yeah, he, Jerry, Jerry likes to think he's really good at the general managing.

Adam Thielen said, he says, quote, go ahead, Mike. I think I still have some football. He says, I think I still have some football in me. So final year, he's going into his final year of a, well, he's 34 now. Yeah. He's actually, he actually is getting older. Matthew Stafford plans to play in 2025, but we'll likely need a new contract about to turn 37. There you go. There you go. All right, the full crew back together. It's time to hit the truth. You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers. I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. Well, well, well, it's the wide receiver truth episode part two. We've been walking through every position group. Just went through the top. How many did we get through in the first wide receiver? Ten. Your guess is as good as mine. I think we got through ten. Looks like ten. So we'll continue.

Some more interesting storylines here. Believe it or not, 2024 saw the most total receiving touchdowns from the wide receiver position in NFL history. I don't believe it. So you're going to have to. It's just, it's facts. Facts, man. 11 different wide receivers had nine or more receiving touchdowns. We only had six of those last year. But a couple of those guys, Rashad Bateman. Nick. Westbrook Keynes. Yeah, I mean, touchdown superstar. That was a fun run in the middle of the season. One every two catches is a huge touchdown. The defenses in the NFL employed zone 67% of the time. That's down from 71% last year. Pretty normal. Pretty normal, but it had been going up. We talked about this going into this season. It went from 64% 67, 68, 71, and now it reverted a little bit more. So, I mean, it's always a pendulum in the NFL as teams start adjusting to one thing.

back and forth. And so today we'll get into some more names, starting with Mike Evans at number 11, a reminder. We're looking at a percentage score determined by the amount of great games a wide receiver has, which is 20 or more fantasy points. 12.5 is our marker for good games, and bust games are fewer than seven and a half points. And we do not include week 18 when you're not playing these guys. We want to know the truth, the reality. when they were on your roster, when the games mattered. What did they do? Try it in true. Hard to escape. Mike Evans at 11. Consistency rank of 12. I mean, that's wild. Like when you look at his game log, a consistency rank of 12. Yeah, I don't know. It just feels strong with the amount of red in there. I mean, you have 23% of his games. It was a bust, but he had so many really high level finishes.

Yeah, when you look at the game lot. 38% great. Like that for Mike Evans. That's very high. Yeah. The touchdowns, right? I mean, the 11 more touchdowns, 1,000 yards missed three weeks before his buy. So the middle of the season, you didn't have him. That hurt. 46% good, 23% bust. But this is the highest great percentage for Evans, highest percentage of games 20 plus since we've been doing this series. Really? Yeah. That is shocking because he's. You know, he's a deep downfield guy who's had monstrous performances over and over. So it was, I mean, it's interesting that this year he had so many massive performances, obviously towards the end of the year that I think they were trying to, once he got back from the injury, they're trying to force him the ball a little bit more, especially the final two weeks of the season. I mean, obviously the last play of the season where they. It was so good. Yeah, it was the right thing to do. I'm so happy they did it get.

the man, his record, let him keep going on these thousand yard seasons. He got to a thousand and four. Do we think that obviously Chris Godwin went down week seven? He had some hit and miss games before that. His consistency in the first half was worse than the second half when Godwin was going off. It seemed like it was a Godwinner Evans game kind of for the first seven weeks. But, you know, new offensive coordinator for him too, but he's gone through a million of them. How are you going to view Mike Evans heading into 2025? He's now 31. He'll be 32. Being 32 with a new coordinator, they'll probably bring another wide receiver in, whether that's bringing Chris Godwin back or replacing him in the draft or free agency. I don't think Mike Evans will, he's at the stage of his career where there's usually only two truths. Either he's lost it, right? They're like, you're going to hold the bag and.

Okay, this was the end, and that happens to all the greats. You know, Andre Johnson was great until one year he just showed up and then he wasn't toast. Julio Jones, same thing. Oh, yeah. Or he's going to be undervalued in draft. He's going to be a really good, you know, because. Those are the only two. Those are the only two. You're just not going to have him be drafted high enough to what he deserves. So I think he'll be a good value. I do not believe it's 32. Yeah, I would say he'll be in the fourth round. I could see him maybe even fall to the fifth. A little bit lower than that deep. What you know for sure is... He's just begging to be a my guy again, isn't he? They will do their best to get him a thousand yards. Like that will be in play because then Kyle will he... He's tied right now with Jerry Rice. Am I remembering that right? That's correct. So this, if he gets it this year, then that's Mike Evans record of most...

consecutive thousand yard seasons right yeah and it's all of them because he started out as a rookie doing wild first ballot he's he's working his way there he's not there yet um we'll talk about jury judy in just a second we'll take a quick break and we've got a bunch of other names to talk about this this is a name that this one's just a weird weird I don't know what to do with this one yeah Jerry Judy comes in at 12 with a consistency rank of 26 okay so you're like okay that's that's a terribly misaligned fantasy finish to consistency was barely drafted, right? Wide receiver 58 off the board, 13th round. First half of the season, it was same old, same old for Jerry Judy. Wide receiver 71. If you were playing Jerry Judy over the first half of the year, it was detrimental to your fantasy football lineup. And yet, 1,229 receiving yards, 90 catches, 145 targets, four touchdowns.

Because in the second half of the season, he went on an absolute tear once a Marty Cooper was shipped off. Once we had Deshaun Watson no longer a quarterback, he was number 10 in consistency and battled his way with some monster performances all the way to wide receiver 12. 13% great. Okay, 31% good. Okay, 31% bust. Like, Jerry Judy was, like how many weeks into his breakout? Did it take before you would play him? Two, because it coincided with the quarterback change. I think that was the biggest. As soon as James took over, we wanted Cedric Tillman, we wanted Elijah Moore, we wanted Jerry. And it was Cedric Tillman at the beginning. Yeah, so you would throw these players in. It was it nice that the- And the-Talma got hurt. Yes. You weren't sure, you know, how much was the quarterback change versus how much was Amari Cooper being gone? Because obviously those didn't happen at the exact same moment.

I will say this. If you were to take the first six weeks away from Jerry Judy, that's when Amari Cooper was on the roster and just look at the season as a total from week seven on. And it didn't start great. Like week seven was one of his worst games of the season. But even including that, the Watson injury game? I'm not, I'm not sure the specifics of week. Week seven was the Watson injury. 39% of snaps for Watson that week. So. Even including that week, the whole season for Jerry Judy minus Amari Cooper, he was the wider receiver 13 in consistency, in our consistency metric. He's so bizarre, though, of, like, we've been, Jerry, Jerry Judy has on, I would say he's underperformed pretty drastically your, your hopes and your dreams for when he was drafted. Like he was in, he was in the Jefferson, or, oh, yeah, Jefferson draft class.

Where Judy was the second wide receiver. I think you had rugs first. But he just, it had been, I mean, four years in Denver where you had like an end of season, you had one, okay one, 972 yards, six touchdowns in year three with the Denver Broncos. But it's been an underperformance as a whole. And then you get the first half of this. But then now is this a, the genies out? And the team's like, holy crap, we didn't even realize that this was part of the range of outcomes for Jerry Judy, which if you remember, they got him and they extended it. The Browns did believe that this was who Jerry Judy was. And if you want to give them credit for that, that would be one of the few things you can give them credit for. By the way, news that Miles Garrett once out of Cleveland just came through. They did know that. They did believe this about Jerry Judy. Now, we're going on two consecutive years where your expectations for the best wide receiver in Cleveland are let.

letting you down for the first half of a year. And then in the second half of the year, when no Deshaun Watson, they go crazy. I mean, Amari Cooper was a league winner last year, two years ago. Now, Jerry Judy did it. So, you know, he needed the opportunity. Now, listen to this. 93% of his targets, they were tied or trailing. Yeah. I mean, they had to chuck it. That is part of Miles. They are picking second. Yeah. The Miles Garrett news is really good news for David Najoku, for Jerry Judy, for the fantasy implications of the Cleveland Browns. We don't know who the quarterback's going to be. That's going to be the major deciding factor for how Jerry Judy is viewed next year. But I do think he comes into this. I mean, they re-signed him. So he's under contract through till 2027 with the Browns.

clear man now, their primary wide receiver, and he looked good. Like he, you know, we've waited way too long. And so it feels like, I don't know, we know who Jerry Judy is. We know he's, he's an average guy or Steve Smith would say he's just a guy. Oh, yeah, the Steve Smith put him in a body bag for sure. And so, you know, it's a little skeptical. I'm a little hesitant to just completely buy in because we've had a lot of years of him. being just average. But what he did this year was above average. And I'm not just talking in the counting stats. He was open. His route running, his yards after catch, they looked like kind of what you were drafting this guy for. So if they figure out anything with the quarterback and they got the number two pick, I mean, they could very easily end up with the first quarterback in the draft. It's rare you'd want to just project the half of a season, but because his season was, it was Amari Cooper, it was tied into.

the change at quarterback and a wide receiver. His second half, eight games, that was a 1,700-yard pace with 120 catches on 178 targets. Put a 200-yard game in there. It'll help. Yeah, so it was a big run for Jerry Judy. He will be a risk. No question. If it's a rookie quarterback, it's a risk. Is this the James Winston? Is it Devante Parker? Right. Like the round one wide receiver who gives you very little, and then year five, you're like, Holy crap, Derry, I knew it. I knew I should believe in Jerry Judy the whole time. And then you go, oh, no, no. Well, I mean, what do you do when you look at George Pickens or you look at Jerry Judy next year? I think those are very fair names to actually be in the same conversation. I don't think, I think most people would react and say Pickens. I don't know if that's the answer. Yeah. No, that's a fair cop. He'll probably go near him in the draft. You do have to keep in mind, Cedric Tillman looked like.

The dude, and then he got the concussion that I still question whether, I mean, we don't have any inside knowledge. It was obviously, it's never good when a player takes, you know, a month off from a concussion. More than a month. He has six games. And so you worry a little bit. However, the context of the situation was they were out of it. They were totally out of the running. They're playing more for a draft pick than anything else. So rushing him back didn't make. Much sense. All right. Well, I'm sure we'll have more conversations about Judy throughout the offseason, depending on what they find at quarterback. At 13, Ladd-McConkie at 13. Consistency was 24th. First half, 39th in consistency. The first half, it was kind of, first half was like if Lad caught a touchdown pass, you were happy. It's like he's a rookie. But in the second half, his consistency jumped up to 17 overall.

and he had games that didn't require a touchdown to be relevant. You end up with a 112 target, 82 for 11007 season. Hard to really have expected anything more than that from Ladd-McConkie. He delivered pretty much through injury over the back half of the year battling injury. That will be part of his story. Can he stay healthy? But, you know, from week 8 on, he was the wide receiver 8 in fantasy. Yeah. That is. Amazing. The first seven weeks, he was on a yardage pace of 750 yards over the course of a season. From that week eight point on, he was on a yardage pace of over 1,500 yards, literally double the yardage. They figured something out. And I mean, this just makes sense. First of all, we talked about this on the truth of Justin Herbert. The team started completely running the ball, not letting Justin Herbert throw.