Explain Yourself! Ranking Debates & Hot Takes

Both came up with the wrong idea. I thought he said bozos. YouTube bozos came up with both the wrong idea. T.Y. Hilton's great, right? We all love him. I've got him as my wide receiver. So far so good. My wide receiver 12. So obviously I think he's going to have a very good year. Be a wide receiver one, but the back end of it. Why do I, I do not believe T.Y. Hilton is a top five, top six type of prospect. And the reason why is touchdowns.

He's just not a touchdown guy. He's had years and years with Andrew Luck as his number one. What has he done with that time? He's been great. He's been fantastic. He's led the league in yards before. But what hasn't he done, even though he's got Andrew Luck throwing touchdowns? He's not really been a huge touchdown guy. His career high in touchdowns is seven. He's usually, you know, six, five.

four touchdowns like he's not a touchdown score so my point is if you look back to 2013 that's as far as i went i'm sure it holds up much longer than that but that that gives 30 opportunities for a top five wide receiver in those seasons since 2013 only two times has there been a top five wide receiver with fewer than seven with seven touchdowns or fewer fewer than eight touchdowns has only happened two times out of 30 now i will grant you that one of those two

was actually T.Y. Hilton when he was number five, but that's not where he usually finishes. T.Y. Hilton's, you know, over the last several years, last year, it was good. He was the 14th wide receiver, missed a couple games. Prior to that, a model of health, as far as games played, 16 a season, he was the 25th wide receiver, the 21st wide receiver, the 11th wide receiver, the 19th wide receiver. But I think saying that

Just because he's the number one to Andrew Luck is not factoring in what his specific skill set is and what his limitations are. And you have other better options now for in-zone work. You know, Devin Funches, Paris Campbell, Doyle, Doyle, healthy with Ebron. I don't think all of a sudden this is the year where it's like he's the red zone guy. He's going to get eight, nine touchdowns. He's going to have a career high in touchdowns unless he does.

He's a back end wide receiver one, not a top end wide receiver one. Well, and I think, you know, Mike, you can speak for yourself. We both ended up with him at six. This was a product of statting him out. I've got him near the league lead in total yardage, which he's done before. I've got him with 90 receptions. And if you look at the 85 career games with Andrew Luck, you're dead on. I mean, seven touchdowns is his paced average with Andrew Luck. That's all you're ever going to bank on. Like if...

Either of us were sitting here saying we thought 10 touchdowns was coming for T.Y. Hilton, we would have been betraying the history we have, right? Yeah. It's just a matter of high volume in terms of yardage. And then I think a high volume in terms of targets and receptions, but you do have the injury concerns with Hilton. There's no doubt about that. Sure. And I think that this year with players like Antonio Brown, not being in that top six guys for me. I don't know if he is for you, Mike. He's not. You know, that's another player that.

found himself behind T.Y. Hilton instead of in front of him, moving Hilton up in the rankings. I mean, we, it's, it's recent history for me for T.Y. Hilton. I have him matching his career high in touchdowns. I have him hitting that seven mark, but 2016 is when he led the league in yards the very next year. That's when he didn't have Andrew Luck for an entire season. And then this year, if he had played 16 games,

he would have been right around the yard as she hit in 2016 because he was actually averaging 0.2 yards more per game. So that's where I am with T.Y. Hilton is the recent history of the evolution of him as a wide receiver, the evolution of Andrew Luck as a quarterback. I think that it would be easy for T.Y. Hilton to be in that 1,400 yards again or range again. Yeah, I don't think that they're, you know,

To kick off this segment, I'm not sure the Hilton debate is extremely controversial. Jason still finds him to be a repugnant. He finds him to be repugnant? Yes, yes. By ranking him above where he finished last year. But Mike, look, I couldn't disagree with you more on your take on this next guy. Jason and I both have him at 10. These are consensus 11, but you got him at 16. Yep. And that's Delvin Cook. Mike, you.

You hinted at why you disagree on Cook being a top-in guy on a recent show. Probably, I think the last show we did. I remember thinking, Mike is super wrong at that time. So please explain yourself. It's just all about volume for Dalvin Cook. The volume through the air will absolutely be there. That's why I have him up at 16. But I think that the Vikings...

just with what they have seen from Dalvin Cook, which is a player who has shown himself to be very injury prone, that you can't give him 250 carries. He's not that type of a player. He's much more right around that 200, maybe up to 210 mark. And so I just don't see his, oh goodness. But Mike? Yes, voice of public opinion. Latavius Murray is gone. Yes.

And Dalvin Cook was the RB6 from weeks 13 through 17. Sure. So he can be in that upper echelon. Yeah, he absolutely can. I just don't have him projected there. And it's Latavius Murray is gone. Alexander Madison is in. He was a third round draft pick. Third round draft pick is right on that cutoff where players can be very fantasy, have great fantasy value. I mean, Dalvin Cook was a second round pick himself. So the team is.

They're perfectly fine moving into the season with Daumukuk and Alexander Madison. If you look at Double Cook last year. I worry about the health. Yeah. He's riskier than others. You look at him last year, 10 or few carries in six of 11 games. And then you have what most people are looking at. Well, the O.C was fired with just a couple games left. And the OC was fired. The very next game, Davao Cook had the most touches, the most yards of the season.

Yeah, that's true. That game was also against the Miami Dolphins, who were the second worst rushing defense in the league in that game where Davao Cook had himself a time. Latavius Murray also had 15 carries in that game. So that was a product of game script. And then after that, you saw the carries trail down for Dava Cook. So it's just a matter of volume on the ground. I don't think that he will get to the range where he needs to be a top end running back one.

I fully believe from what I've read about the Vikings and their reporters, they believe Dalvin Cook is the centerpiece of their rushing attack. I know they got Alexander Madison. I really hope he comes through so that we can sing the Hamilton music with his name. Alexander Madison. Exactly. But in the meantime, I think Dalvin Cook is going to be a really, really solid running back this year. If you were to say the reason I got him at 16 is because he's an injury.

Like, I don't have him playing 16. I've got him playing 14. Sign me up because I still see him as not having proven that he can play 16 games. But if he's out there 16, I think you're low. And I assume your 16 ranking is based on him playing 16 games. You just believe that it's a volume issue. Yep. And I hope he proves you wrong for my dynasty's sake. Wow, that's crazy. 71% of last year's fantasy points in that.

before we expand for Cook. Now here's the real issue. The real issue here is the absolute hatred that Andy Holloway has for Leonard Fournett. I don't know what Leonard Fournett, number four pick in the NFL draft, did to Andy or Andy's family.

Like, you know, I don't feel like Mike or I are crazy high on him, right? Yeah, but to say that we don't, that I don't dislike him would be. You want to be included. It would not be an accurate stage. But for fantasy purposes, we know he's going to touch the ball a ton. And, you know, we've got him ranked relatively neutrally at 14 and 15, Mike. But Andy's over here pulling his ranking down. You've got him in the 20s. Splang yourself.

Well, I really appreciate the fact that you introduced that with Leonard Fournett's greatest accomplishment as a professional athlete, which was to be drafted as high as he was drafted. But when you just look at the track record for Fournette, I just have so many things that trouble me. This is a guy with a 3.7 career average, and that's given him credit.

Because last year he was 3.2 a carry. That's not good. And the problem is, like, I will allow players. Like, if you want to talk me into Fournette, if the basis of an argument for a running back was based on, you know, the fact he's going to be heavily involved in the passing game, and that will neutralize some of the inefficiency in the running game, right? Melvin Gordon has had inefficient seasons. Sure. But he receives a ton of targets in the passing game.

You have a quarterback in Foles that has not hyper-targeted running backs historically. I think Fournett will be involved as much as a guy that's going to be on the field first and second down is going to be involved. But here's what you've got going on with Fournett's career. You get to take the inefficiency and you get to stack a few little fears on top of it. Like there have been weight concerns with Leonard Fournett. Is he playing too heavy? Is he going to play too heavy this year? You have the...

Arrest. Yes, it was a slap on the wrist for the driving problem, but it was another, well, what's going on? Then the suspension by the team for his attitude, the disagreements with Tom Coughlin. These are too many, there are too many risky factors associated with Fournette, and this was not a good football team last year. Now, everyone believes, okay, Foles is going to come in. It's a better situation than they had, but it's not an easy division. Okay? Indianapolis is great.

Houston's great. Yep. Tennessee's going to be better than advertised, in my opinion. So I think you have... They're advertised as bad. So they're better than they're better. I think they are advertised as bad. It's good. Here's our lock. I get the volume. I get the volume, but you're talking about a non-pass catching volume situation. I don't believe that's true because a non-pass catching situation is Sonya Michelle LeGarrett Blum. No, those are abysmal passing situations. No, those are non-passing situations. Leonard Fournett.

was on pace to have north of 30, you know, receptions, and now you lose T.J. Yeldin. They did not bring in another capable pass catching back. He is, shockingly, the most pass capable back on their roster. So I think he's going to be involved more in that way. But let's say he's not. Let's say he's the same pace he was last year, right? And you said what? He was abysmal 3.2 yards per carry. Gross garbage. Even still.

on a per game basis. He was the running back 13. With all that trash considered, he was the running back 13. And that's including being behind guys like, how did he do that? Per game. Marlon Mack. Let me argue with you. Okay. Using a per game statistic on a player like Leonard Fournett is putting the blinders on. Because per game is, it's his second greatest feature behind being drafted fourth overall.

Per game has been his problem. If he could play all the games, he would have been fine. He would have been good. But have you statted him missing games, or you've sated him 16-game pace? I've statted him with respect to the fact that I believe that they will find other solutions in the passing game and that there is a high degree of risk with Leonard Fournette, whether it would be another suspension, the team losing confidence in him halfway through the season.

and realizing they don't even have to pay him next year if they don't want to because they find somebody else in their offense. I think that over the course of training camp, you're going to start to see names emerge that aren't Leonard Fournett. And I could be wrong. And it won't be Alfred Blue's name that's going to be stealing things from him. But that is why I have hesitation. Because I don't think that the past catching will wash out the risk. But I get, look, you guys have not been unfair to him.

You've given him 1415. You haven't said, hey, this is a banner year for Leonard Fournette. And part of that's got to be, Jacksonville's got an uphill battle in that division too. You've got to be ahead. You've got to be winning. They were a great, if their defense returns the form, then they can do the little A plus B equals Leonard Fournette on the field if he's healthy. Well, if my man Josh Allen has anything to say about that on defense, fall into the Jaguars, they're going to be running the ball. We'll see. We'll see what happens. All right.

Jason? Yes. We're getting into some nitty gritty here because Mike and I, we did our rankings. This next guy, we ended up, I think for me, he ended up lower than I thought he would. Yeah, same here. I definitely see and recognize breakout potential, but I want to hear the argument why we are so wrong about these initial season rankings. We have DJ Moore at 31 and 32. Mike, Jason has them up at 19. It's flabbergasting.