Rookie Review Show! + Second-Year Outlooks, Mystery Boxes - Fantasy Football Podcast for 2/15

So it's just worth a thought. Zay Flowers, 77 for 858 and 5. Definitely showed flashes. Yeah, he had some stretches. Week 12 through 17, the wide receiver 11 points per game. But Andrews was gone. And we, you know, we saw him step in. He was capable and able to step in into that role. I don't know where Zay Flowers is going to settle in. long term in fantasy. He was the wide receiver 27 this year. He's certainly their most capable player outside of Mark Andrews. I can't, like I was never a huge Bateman fan like in the in the pre-draft process, but I still can't wrap my head around how bad he's like Bateman is awful. If you go watch the tape from the divisional game.

dude was getting open all the time he was he was not getting targets there was a disconnect with there was and and um like if you had to take zayflowers here's the question for you the next three years of zayflowers and then average out where you think he finishes where do you settle in with zay flowers i settle in as like the wider receiver 25 24 something like that yeah i'm the same okay so not much different than this past year nope so you're talking maybe a guy that's more ppr oriented 80 receptions, 1,000 yards, but not scoring a ton? Yeah, not scoring a ton. And he'll have a couple weeks where you saw it with the broken play in the playoffs of Zay and the week before against San Francisco, like from remembering that right. But Zay Flowers is very, he's capable of hitting the big play. But it will be just a few spike weeks here and there. I brought him up on the Dynasty podcast about a month ago of someone that I'm.

I'm willing to listen to offers of First Dayflowers, and it's not that, it's not because he's going to be bad. Wide Receiver 25-ish is in a Dynasty League, that's very useful for your team. You're going to start that player. It's just what is the opinion of other managers in your league about Zay Flowers? Do they see what he did and see the growth potential from a year one player, which? that is possible for Flowers to be this good as a rookie and keep getting better. But he feels like a player who will be locked into that wide receiver 2, wide receiver 3 fringe, and his value could be higher than that right now. Would you rather have Jordan Addison? I would rather have Jordan Addison. Addison was 70 for 9-11 and 10. So 10 touchdowns. Finish at wide receiver 21.

That's how I lean. I'd rather have Addison than Zayflowers. We talked about him on the wide receiver truth part two episode. If you want to go back and listen to that in a little bit more detail. But he showed obviously a ton of flashes when you're scoring double digit times. And, you know, TBD on the quarterback situation. But Jordan Addison certainly had a great rookie season. Jonathan Mingo caught 43 of 85 targets. Jonathan Mingo is. So disappointed. He didn't score. He was drafted very highly, second round pick. And it didn't work. No, chicken, egg. You know, they always say the chicken or the egg. Is it, I mean, maybe both just suck. Yeah. Sometimes it's not mutually exclusive. This is just both. I think, I think that the general manager of the Panthers had a bad draft. Yeah. Jaden Reed.

finished at wide receiver 23, 64 for 793 and 8 became a go-to wide receiver for this team, ran the football, scored twice on the ground from week 10 on. He was the wide receiver 9. I love Jaden Reed. There was a question for the mailbag show that we didn't get to on Tuesday that said pick up pair of pickled pecker wide receivers or something. That's what it was. It's Jaden Reed and something else. That's my answer for sure. It doesn't mean he is like everything. You know, he's limited in his skill set. But he is just, he's going to be part of the game plan for that head coach for as long as he's there. Like Debo is in San Francisco, you're going to build game plans around Jaden Raid who makes place. Yeah. So my.

My concern with, first of all, he looked really good. He proved he is an NFL player. He's here to stay. He's going to be valuable for the Packers. And for fantasy purposes, we know he can get it done. But he did get it done almost always when Christian Watson wasn't there. In the games, you know, he was, Christian Watson was out for seven games. in for nine games, and you go from 7.1 targets to 4.8 targets, down from 60 yards a game to 40 yards per game. And obviously, there's a rookie season, so, you know, he's still figuring it out, but it did seem like, you know, when all three guys are healthy, maybe that's a, you know, a fool's errand to think Christian Watson's ever going to be healthy. But when all three guys were healthy, it's hard for me to believe

that any of them will be consistent. Watson or Reed or Dobbs or Wicks. I would rather have Jaden Reed than Zayflowers moving forward. Wow. Moving forward. I think that's pretty hot. He's a bet. I know you. And obviously he finished in the top 24 as a rookie establishing himself in a depth chart that goes well beyond three. I mean, Tontavian Wix is part of that conversation. Yeah. And you saw other players that come in and make a mark and you had, you know, Musgrave and Kraft. And like, to me, Jane Reeves just going to be built into your game plan. It's not going to, like, if you asked me the same question that we did about flowers and you said, where is he going to? Why did you were 20? You know, why did you ever 18? I don't think he's a top 12 type of finished guy. I mean, he looked good. He finished the season strong, which is always what you want to see. You know, you want to see as the rookies go along.

Are they getting better down the stretch? You know, you saw that with Ammonrae St. Brown, his rookie season, just catching fire at the end. And, you know, there's questions as to whether or not it was because his opportunities were higher without Christian Watson or whether he just leveled up. But I know that I can speak to while watching games with Andy, the amount of times Andy just gushed over what he saw from Jaden Reed. Yeah, and he's not on any of my teams. Yeah. So my love is unbiased. He's genuine. This is our day after Valentine's show. And so this episode's about love. Jaden Reed is extremely difficult because he was, despite all his greatness, he was still a slot wide receiver. Like two wide receivers, it's not going to be him. Like it will be, it will be Dobbs and it'll be Krista Watson. You saw it play out in the, in the playoff game where Jaden Reed, I think Jade Reed was catchless in the first.

playoff game. I'll double check that. So that's why it's so difficult because when he plays, he's an excellent player and can be a focal point, but then there's just times where the focal point is actually, he's not on the field because he's not in this package. Sure. Yeah, and he dealt with that stupid chest injury over and over again at the end of the year that he was playing through. Rashi Rice, Ted Dell. Dude, Rice is extremely difficult too. Super Bowl champion. Yes, he is. He took advantage of every opportunity that he was given. So he didn't fail at any point, right? Like there wasn't, it wasn't like Q's like, okay, step up and then you disappear. Like he became their primary receiving option. The hardest part with Rice is whether you go sell that to enticed two-time Super Bowl, you know, fans of Patrick Mahomes.

realizing that this team is going to potentially make a significant splash at the wide receiver position. I wonder what Rashi Rice's future is going to be if I told you it's Pittman or Evans or, you know, those type of guys getting here. He's Kansas City. He is a screen guy too. He's a yak guy. Yeah, he's a yak guy. Where that could. He didn't show up in the Super Bowl, really. It's like when you call someone a yak guy, it almost feels insulting because you're, taking away, well, you can't do this skill set. But I just, he is, his route tree is not complete. And yet he still managed to have a strong rookie season. You know who he feels like? Who you got? He feels like, um, the way they were using McCall Hardman a few years ago, but where he catches it. That's kind of, that's what a lot, I mean, literally, if you go back and watch McCall Hardman in Kansas City, some of the screen game plays.

But Rice is running them properly. It's like, you know, Hardman didn't know he won the Super Bowl. Yeah. Blacked out, he said. Did you not know that? I did see that. Yeah. It's insane. But Rice was, he did everything that was asked of him. The question is merely will they ask him more of him in the future? Or will they be content with this and utilize different outside wide receivers that aren't named? Because they went downfield to MVS. They go downfield to Watson. Like they have choices. They have opportunities to put Rice in there, and they're choosing Watson and Hardman and these type of players. Yeah, and, you know, they have to have more than one wide receiver on the field, but I don't want to discount the fact that he's a rookie and he can get better. You know, his route tree's not complete. And now that Andy, we know Andy Reid is coming back, obviously if they go out, they're going to show us what their actions, right? If they go out and they get Michael Pittman or go out and get Mike Evans or try to make a splash add to the wide receiver room,

then, yeah, Rice is, I mean, you will have wished you sold. Given that they didn't spend on Tyree Kill, they don't have, you know, Patrick costs a lot of money and they've just won back-to-back Super Bowls with a hodgepodge of wide receivers, I would be surprised if they do go out and spend top dollar on a free agent. And if Rice comes into his sophomore season with a great head coach, the best quarterback of all time, and he's better? and utilized more. I mean, you know, Tyree Kill had a great rookie year, but he was nowhere near as good as a route runner and is involved in the offense and those type of things as he was after that rookie season. So I find myself a little bit more bullish on the ability for Rice to become the type of receiver that we would prefer him to be. It feels it feels a little bit like without Tyree Kill.

this category of wide receiver for Kansas City thus far has been just a scary one, almost like the old, you know, Patriots backfield situations where, you know, is this offense in the way Andy Reid wants to run things ever going to really allow for one wide receiver to be, you know, a dominant alpha or is it always going to be a complementary set of players and, you know, Kelsey's involved? So I think Reed. gets the most out of his players. And so I think he got the most out of Reed. This was all Reed could do this season. He got the least out of Cadarius Tony. Well, I think he got the most out of Caderius Tony, which is impressively bad. Let's talk about Tank Dell, Marvin Mims, and a handful of other guys before we shut things down. Tank Dell, 75 targets, 47 for 709 and 7.

He was the wide receiver three for a four-week span. He finished at 15 and points per game. The unfortunate terrible injury while blocking a Damien Pierce rushing attempt. But a third round pick, someone C.J. Stroud is building a rapport with for the long term. I think we're all really excited about Tankdale's potential. He's going to get deep shots. He's going to get important third down targets. He's definitely... The question for people will just be Tankdale or Nico Collins in drafts next year. I'm on the Tankdale side if the recovery goes well, but I think it's close and I don't blame anybody going best value or whatever the case may be. Really impressive rookie season. Yeah, from weeks 9 through 12, he was the wide receiver 3 over 20 points a game, a ridiculous almost 11 targets over 90 yards per game in that time. And not behind the line of scrimmage, little Jackson Smith and Jigman targets. He was not used.

like a tiny little gadget guy. He was used like a true number one wide receiver. Like the Sean Jackson. Like Jackson's a tiny guy. Yeah. Go throw him around and try to cover this little bumblebee. What was really, really surprising because it doesn't usually happen, but was so awesome based on his size, his little tiny itty-bitty body. They used. That's right. They used him. just like Tank Dell in college. I know that's crazy that they would utilize a guy who, you know, in college was 90 for 1329 yards and 12 touchdowns. And then his final season, 109 receptions, 1,400 yards and 17 touchdowns. That really does. Deshaun Jackson is a very similar physical situation. He's going to be great. And I think all three of us are super in on Tankdale next year.

We are going in order of where these players were drafted. Marvin Mims. You're going to have to just hope and pray right now. Yeah, maybe next year. He showed flashes on special teams. Jalen Hyatt and Cedric Tillman, third round draft picks. Didn't do much this year. Maybe next year. Yeah, maybe next year. Josh Downs had a small stretch. He just fooled us for a minute. Well, 68 for 771 and then he got injured. All right. The ending number of 771 yards is shocking. He seems like he's either going to be a compliment to a returning Michael Pittman or he may have a bigger role. Yeah, I mean, he had a four-game stretch where he was on fire. And he'll have a different quarterback. Michael Wilson, pretty disappointing for Arizona. Couldn't catch the ball sometimes. Yeah, they'll be bringing in.

star wide receiver. Yeah, there are some people on Twitter talking about, oh, go trade for Michael Wilson. I'm like, no, that's not my opinion. I don't think Michael Wilson is the perfect Juan Jennings for a team. Sure. I don't think he has the potential to be like a monster wide receiver two. It'll be, there'll be a big name coming in this year for Arizona and maybe another one in free agency. Trey Tucker was a third round pick. He flashed many times for Las Vegas. So, you know. He was one of those players much better for NFL than for fantasy predictability. Don Tavian Wicks. Definitely flashed. 39 for 581. That's crazy. Four touchdowns. Interesting name moving forward. How upset are the Chargers that they didn't get Don Tavian Wicks instead of first round Q. Huge. I think they're upset for lots of reasons, to be honest. Who's next? Who's next? Parker Washington. Oh, wait. No, this guy. Five.

42. Okay. So Puka Nakua. Man. Only 105 receptions, only 1486 yards, only six touchdowns. Just kind of a mediocre wide receiver four finish. The conversation for Puka, to me, honestly, is just how high do you take him in a startup? In a dynasty startup? Man. Dynasty startup. I can tell you consensus-wise where he is. I've got Puka at... my wide receiver six yeah i thought you loved him jason i'm i'm moving them up i got him at 13 overall or not wide receiver 13 or do you have them at wide receiver 13 no overall oh okay overall otherwise i mean who knows what was going to happen here yeah we're gonna have our first fight but it's it it's unbelievable to go from a fifth round pick to

Easily, no matter what the argument, I think people would say top 10 wide receivers, just how high up to you go? Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, we've talked so much about him, especially on wide receiver truth episodes. So other players that flash briefly, T. Palmer of Tampa Bay, A.T. Perry for New Orleans. T. Palmer is an interesting name. It doesn't need a whole bunch of conversation analysis because you need things to shake out right now. But if Mike Evans lose, or lose, I see if he leaves. And it just, it feels no inside information, but feels like the team is like really disappointed with Chris Godwin at where he is now. Trey Palmer had a ton of college production, doesn't have draft capital or anything like that, but he just, he is a name to just keep in the back of your head. It's maybe like if you're doing a trade and you can get a Palmer as a throw in, I would do it. Breaking news. I mean, it's not, it's not breaking because we recorded this on Monday.

Yeah. But like Mitch Trabisky is a free agent guys. Oh, man. Wow. Wow. Yeah, it's a big deal. Number, what, number two overall pick? That, well, trade it up. Traded up to the number two. I'm so sorry. Demario Douglas was very good. Sixth round pick for New England. Pop. Had a good chance. Especially with the quarterback boy. All right, rookie tight ends. Dalton Kincaid was the first off the board. He had a. Hot streak, week 7 through 11, was the tight in three during that stretch. This was when Dawson Knox was out. And then when Dawson Knox returned, it slowed back down again. But 73 for 6, 73, and 2, that's a nice year, 91 targets. For a rookie tight end that is a fantastic season, he showed enough to have full confidence that he'll be more and more involved. He's going to have a very good career and hopefully breaks out into being a top fantasy titan.

another really valuable asset. If he finishes the tight-in five next year, you would be? I would be happy. I would be happy with that. And I think he will. Sam Leporta finishes the number one tight end. Second round draft pick, 86 for 889 and 10. Yeah. No, Jason. He broke all the rules. All the rules you've set for them. The number one tight end. Yeah. Outscoring Travis Kelsey. Yeah. And he'll be the number one off the board next year in fantasy. Yes, he will. So unbelievable year for Leporta. You heard us talk about him in the truth episode. So we won't dig in too deep. If you want to hear more Leporta breakdown, you can go back to the tight end truth episode. Do not sleep on Michael Mayer. Michael Mayer is a very good player. And just because Las Vegas Raiders. Las Vegas Raiders rookie tight end. Look, just because Sam Leporta did what no one else has ever been able to do at tight end.

Don't. Sorry. No, it was a good. It was a good joke. Yeah. Okay. But, but Michael Mayer is really, really talented. It is normal for rookie tight ends to not do much. I mean, look at, look at Trey McBride. Oh, Trey McBride was, you know, his rookie season was irrelevant. Michael Mayer's rookie season was irrelevant. Don't, don't sleep on them. In fact, this is where like, I don't like drafting rookie tight ends and dynasty. but I sure like trading for second year tight end. So go kick the tires on Michael May. So are you trading for Luke Musgrave or the Schoon Man? Not the Schoon Man. I know he dealt with injury, but I do think that it was kind of established that he is the backup tight end now. Tucker Kraft had a nice run for Green Bay. That's interesting moving forward. Musgrave, Kraft probably ruin each other. And then Davis Allen. I want to mention him in the fifth round. Had a little stretch for the Rams.

uh when higby was out could be the future of the of the tight-in position for los angeles pay attention to him pay attention to darn out washington a little bit in just in Pittsburgh as well in the third round just the reminder because i had it's like oh hegby got hurt yeah hegby tore his ACL so see he's an older tight end uh oh wait he tore his ACL and MCO okay so that's a He seems unlikely to be back for the start. More ligaments being reported right as we see. Yeah. Yep. That's it, though. Check out the ligament tracker. We do have a full injury report, though, in the UDK. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll close things down by reminding you to head over to ultimate draft kit.com. And next week we'll get into some shocking stats from 2023. And some of our classic episodes are coming up, like the coaching changes episode as we recap.

all of the moves that teams have made to try to fix everything with like hiring somebody but like that always works oh every hire was so good uh 10 things to remember episode coming up as well so check it out and make sure you subscribe spotify apple youtube wherever you're listening drop us a review if you can and uh we're on twitter at the f f ballers again ultimate draft kit dot com for the dynasty pass that is it we made it through And go back to Monday and go to my profile on Twitter. Twitter.com slash Andy Holloway for a live feed image of Jason. Goodbye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on join thefoot.com. And follow us on Twitter at theFF ballers.