Old, Bland, and Undervalued Players + Hot Dog Decisions - Fantasy Football Podcast for 6/13

season he still was at 11.2 points per game and that was like in I guess we're back on to injury but it's you know he was recovering from a major injury to start the year you you again yeah but it's when it's when it happens in training camp it's generally a really bad sign and yet he was still able to give you you know five really good week oh six yeah six three like three week winning performances. So I think that you laid it out great of just, does he still have a ceiling? And I think he still does. Like if Stafford is still there, I think that both him and Puka can be top 20 guys. I'll still take the bet on Puka before Cooper Cup, but it's a Cooper Cup for me will not be a player. I'm drafting it like, I'm trying to get him on every single squad. Like I'm not going to overload, but I'm going to make sure that.

Some of my teams do have Cup. Well, and one of Cups' worst games last year where he only caught two passes. That was a game Matthew Stafford didn't play in. So that goes to some of those targets per outrun numbers and everything on this season. I think the tough part with an older, former star is the consistency you're talking about. They don't come out and do it every week. They come out and show flashes on a good week when they're feeling good. It's like Hopkins last year. You know, Hopkins had weeks where he's the number two, four. eight, but it was few and far between. It wasn't the old every week. But what about Adam Thielen this year? Last year, Adam Thielen, I know, I know, I know, I know. You love the voice. Everyone loves the voice. But the, uh, I'm a little sad. We didn't get the voice to be honest. You just did it like two minutes ago. Ah, it's too long ago. Adam Thielen from weeks two through six had this outrageous run where he would have, he was on pace for like 160 catches, 17 hundred yards.

14 touchdowns. He was seeing 30% of the targets. It showed that if you target him frequently, you get production. There wasn't like a, you know, having that correlation is encouraging. This year he'll be almost 34. But he did it last year. He is like we act like having Deonté Johnson solves their wide receiver room. This is one of the worst wide receiver rooms you had ever laid eyes on outside of Adam Thielen. incompetence through and through. Yes, they brought him Xavier, Legett. I don't know how much they'll trust him. Feeling to me is the trustworthy late career Larry Fitzgerald and Arizona situation where you're going to have more snaps than you thought he'd get, more first downs than you thought he'd get. He won't be drafted by anybody. He won't be drafted by me. That's for sure. But I want to examine the why. Okay, let me tell you the why.

The why is because what you, you actually just said it and you don't realize you said it. Last, Deonti Johnson coming in to one of the worst wide receiver rooms we've seen in forever outside of Adam Thielen. Adam Thielen was competing with no one. During that stretch where he was competing with no one and acquiring 30 plus percent target share because you had to throw it to Thielen. There was no one else to throw the ball to. He had good numbers. He had a good stretch because volume. mattered there. But now with Deonte Johnson there, can you imagine Deonte Johnson and Adam Thielen in this core where Adam Thielen is demanding 30% market share? No. If you look at weeks 12 on, that's where all of a sudden he didn't hit 30% market share. And that was without Deante Johnson last year. During that stretch where he was under 30% market share, he was on a 17-game pace of 699 yards and no touchdowns. So it's like that's worthless. You can't play him.

Yeah, but you also have the worst quarterback play in the game. I think that's... I'll take 25% target share, 23% target share of better performance. I'm just saying that that... Do you think Deonti Johnson is worth rostering? I would rather roster Deonti Johnson ahead of Thielen, a player still in his prime. Feeling is, you know... I'm not saying you would take him over Deonti. I'm just the arguments that you made about this offense... I personally. Deonti's not getting 30% target share here. I'm not, I'm not crazy about any pass catcher here. I'm not a Bryce believer. So you're not a Canales believer. I'm more of a Canales believer than a Bryce Young believer. So hopefully he can do what he did for Baker, do what he did, you know, for Gino Smith and get the most out of him. The reports have been good. But the reports are always good. You also need to, look, this is a.

a psychology aspect of the game, but like through, the heater was weeks two through six, and it was incredible. It was like a really strong run. Then you have the buy week. And it's not uncommon for older players like Adam Thielen who to have a hot start and then everything falls apart. But how long did you keep playing Adam Thielen after everything fell apart? waiting for things to bounce back. No, he had five straight weeks in a row. It's going to come back. And it was just, it was a fool's errand to keep playing Adam Thielen. So I think that that should factor in. And I'll be, sorry. And I'll be looking for that again next year of Deontay Johnson. It could take him some time to when they're on the actual NFL field to get, you know,

get a connection with Bryce Young. I think it's possible that Adam Thielen comes out at the gate's pretty hot, but it's more important to remember that I, if he does that, I'm not going to be fooled by it. I'm going to either pick him up off the waiver wire and try and move him or I just like, I'm not going to buy in that this is going to be an entire season. And they also spent a first round pick on another wide receiver with a brand new coaching staff coming over that wasn't there for Adam Thielen's heater. Keenan Allen, 32 years old.

Wide receiver four in points per game last year. Switches teams. Right now being drafted in the fifth round. It was the third highest fantasy points per game for any 31 plus year old wide receiver since 2011. It was so good. Like Keenan Allen, Keenan Allen's career will come to an end at some point. But the Bears went out, added this security blanket for their young quarterback. Do you believe in one more year of Keenan Allen at this price? Where's he going? Fifth round, wide receiver 27. So you're talking guys right behind Keenan Allen right now. Pickens. Would be T. Higgins, George Pickens, and then right in front of him would be Zayflowers. Yeah. I hate being negative on two guys in a row and especially Keenan because Keenan's so good. Keenan's good now.

He's a special player. He's always where the quarterback knows he's going to be. For this, though, you know, last year you had Keenan Allen. You had Mike Williams go down early. And then it was the Keenan Allen show. Now. And Echler wasn't there. Yeah, the Echler injuries too. Yeah. And so it's like, okay, he looked great. But now you're, you're not the one for this team. DJ Moore is the one for this team. Are you the two or is Roma Dunez eight? two and probably Keenan is the two. But my worry, you know, is, is that what you're going to see is a very poor utilization behind the line of scrimmage, really, really short stuff. The way that you saw Shane Waldron use JSN last year for the Seahawks, that slot guy with just, let's get them, let's get them the ball short. I just don't like that. I don't. If they did that. I know. If they're seriously putting old Keenan in that.

situation, it will be a colossal failure. It's one of those where it's like we talk about, okay, with these old guys, does he still have a ceiling? Can you make a, can you make the bowl case? It's different. No, because the ceiling for Keenan's always been massive reception volume. Exactly. So it's harder to make the case that like is 110 receptions in the cards for a rookie quarterback to Keenan Allen? No. Okay, because like the targets have to be insane to reach. I mean, All his best season, 159 targets, 136, 149, 150. If you want to give them just 100 targets, which is not the end of the world, you're not ending up with anything close to last year. Yeah, I mean, I have him with 100. Unless he scores a bunch of times, which he... He doesn't do it. And that's not the forte of rookie quarterbacks, even good rookie quarterbacks. Touchdowns are the thing that they lack the most. I've got Keenan down for 130 targets.

And that equates to the way that I see the offense playing out. The wide receiver 31. So in the fourth round ahead of someone like T. Higgins, it's just not home we don't play that. That's just an in living color reference. Yeah. Homey the clown? Sure. Yeah. I don't play that. Goodness gracious. He's digested. Dude, just the hot dogs talking. It's not my fault. Blame Andy. Do you have anything to add on Ken and Allen? Uh, but the. For the most part, no. But the only pushback I would say is I think that DJ Moore is an excellent wide receiver. I think he is the number one. I'm going to leave a little margin that Keenan Allen actually is the number one wide receiver for this team. The dude, he is a target earner. Just the way that he plays, when you look up, like would you rather throw down the sideline of a...

to DJ Moore who's streaking down the field of like he's kind of got DB on him a little bit, or Keene Allen who's literally wide open in the middle of the field. I don't know, man. Maybe you didn't see the quote from Rome. Roma Dunzae is coming for Puka Nakua's receiving rookie record. Oh, we all need goals. Good for you, man. I am most excited to talk about this player because I think that there has not been enough discussion in the last. four or five months about what to expect from Mike Evans after last year. It was incredible. His ADP on the My Guys episode last year was wide receiver 33 in the seventh round. Yeah. It seemed insane to me at the time. And then this year. It seems insane again. He's the wide receiver 16. I think part of that is a third round pick. So four rounds ahead. He was the wide receiver five.

last year on the year. So obviously Mike Evans deserves all the praise in the world. First ballot. First ballot. Second ballot. He will be a Hall of Famer, not on the first ballot. Got paid. Consistency at quarterback. You know, where are you with Mike Evans right now? Mike. He was finishing his sentence. Where are you with Mike Evans right now, Mike? He's 80-piece sandwiched. between Nico Collins and Debo Samuel, two players that I would take like a full round ahead of Mike Evans. See, that's so. But I think you need to dig in there because the why to that is like Mike Evans, obviously every year, forever. Yes. Literally without exception is essentially a top 12 wide receiver. Yeah. I mean, the only times he didn't do it, he played fewer games. I.

Maybe I'm allowing it to impact things just too much. But the Canales factor is it's in my viewpoint of what the what's going on with the bucks of having having that be an almost carbon copy of the success from Seattle, like where we saw Gino resurrect his career and be great. We saw the same thing with Baker last year. And then. Dave leaves Seattle. Things fall apart. So that could be oversimplifying it, but that's really how I'm looking at it. Mike Evans is we joke about all the time, but I literally believe Mike Evans is a first ballot Hall of Famer who's going to have many, many more great seasons. But for fantasy football this year, I'm going to bet against it where he's of those other guys. I don't like that argument.

You don't like the... I don't like anything to do with Canales, as the argument. That was the problem last year about why he was undervalued was it was a different quarterback coming in. And Mike Evans, of all players anywhere, has had the most change of everything. He's had six offensive coordinators. So is the seventh one going to make a difference? I do think it's not a matter of will it make a difference for Mike Evans, but will it make a difference for Baker? This is also a bet on Baker to some degree. It was a bet on Baker last year. If you bet on Baker...

you got paid out because Mike Evans was great. The way that I've got him right now, I've got him down for nine receiving touchdowns. That's like as much as I can give him. Last year he had 13. If he gets 13 and my stats, he jumps to my wide receiver 9. So he still got that ceiling in him. I'm not opposed to drafting Mike Evans. But this is a question of like, is Baker going to throw as many touchdowns as he did last year without Canales with the new coordinator, all that? I mean, obviously Canales was a new coordinator for him last year.

This is year two with Mike Evans. You can make an argument either way. But let's say he got eight, eight touchdowns. He drops to like wide receiver 17 in my rankings. That's where he's being drafted. Yes. Really? He's that low. He's wide receiver 16. I'm fine. I am fine. And again, the, my bet against Mike Evans is just the players around him. I have him at like right around the NICO common is interesting. I just, I'm my chips are all in on NICO. But like. Top five finish potential? I think he can, yeah. Okay. I mean, that is chips all in. That's like two bags of chips all the way in. If I had three bags of chips, I'd have three bags on the table. Yeah, I mean, all in means whatever you have. Yeah. If I had five bags, you can't have five bags and then be like all in and then put three in. They'll say, sir. Yeah. You owe me two bags. That's just poker. That's poker. This is poker. Just poker bags. Homie, don't play that. Um,

Okay, look, I'm just trying to tease out both sides of the discussion. Yeah, that's fine. So you're in on Mike Evans again. No, I, this is why I'm curious. I started, by the way, I started with the, I'm teasing this out before you called me out on it. No, I'm not all in on Mike Evans. I think the variable there is the touchdowns. It's massive. He's never going to catch 100 passes. But I also don't like doubting Mike Evans because you know what you're going to get. Like, to bring Nicole Collins up as an example, like, Stefan Diggs is a complete unknown in this situation, right? We like Tank Dell. Nico played a lot of games without Tank Dell last year, right, and without Noah Brown last year. Like he had an opportunity when those guys were off the field. CJ Stroud, is it a sophomore slump? Does he do the exact same thing in year two? We always think they will. Baker didn't. Baker had a great, you know, freshman season in the NFL, and the sophomore year was tough. So from a variable standpoint, you look at Mike Evans, and what do we call this? Old, bland, and undervalued.

There's a blandness to taking Mike Evans in your draft where you don't receive the kind of like adrenaline rush of drafting Nico Collins, George Pickens or somebody that's exciting with the unknown. And yet you could just go win your league because of it. That's kind of where I'm at. So to give you an answer, if he slips, a few picks, if he's top of the fourth round and he's the wide receiver 18, 19, 20 off the board, it's a no-brainer guarantee. You didn't make a mistake with that pick. He doesn't get hurt. He has a great rapport with the existing quarterback. I don't really care about the office coordinator personally because you just chuck it up to Mike Evans, just like the last six offensive coordinators you did that with. So last year, like wild numbers. So on the season, because we think of Chris Godwin having a very poor year. Last year, Mike Evans was 25% of the targets. Chris Godwin was 24.

of the targets. Mike Evans was 31% of the wide receiver yards. Chris Godwin was 25. Touchdowns. Chris Godwin, 7% of the receiving touchdowns. Mike Evans, 46%. Yeah. So like when you're the, the thought experiment of like, well, Nico had these guys out the field, he had a Mike Evans had Chris Godwin out of the end zone completely. I will say he always does. Of the four. oldies that we've talked about so far on today's episode, I like Cup more than Evans. And if he's going a full round behind, I mean, I like them about this. I like them about the same. And so for, I like him more based on the fact that he's going a full round behind. When you said, well, if Mike Evans, you know, slips and slides to the fourth round, Cooper Cup's at the back of the fourth right now. And I don't want to load up on like too many old guys, you know, sure, not my jam. Yeah. I just think.

I don't think there's been a lot of talk about why Evans is where he is at in current drafts because he, you know, there's other players that people like talking about more. So it's just going to be very interesting to me to see if he becomes a value again because that's what happens. These guys end up being values over and over again. And he did get paid. Sure. And who's more likely? Like if you had to bet your house on double-digit touchdowns, you're going to do it with Nico or are you going to do it with Mike Evans this year? Evans.

Yeah. I mean, so in that respect, that's why I wanted to talk about it. All right. We'll take a break. Got one more name for you. Like I said, I got two more names for you. Oh. In the break, we got one more. Yeah, one more name did appear in the break. Brandon Cooks, let's start there. I've started to see that name percolate in the undervalued category. Mike is nodding like a man who agrees. I do. It was not a great start last year for Brandon Cooks. I think there was a lot of hope, anticipation, all the all season chatter, and then he comes out. Wide receiver, 76, 88, 61, 82. Forget about him. He did more over the second half of the year after the buy. But after the buy, it wasn't great. I mean, it would have been a pace of 63 receptions for 846 yards and 11 touchdowns.

After the buy, he averaged 11, 11 fantasy points per game, good for wide receiver 15 during that stretch. Yeah, but that was touchdowns. Yeah, that is the problem. It was all touchdowns for 846 won't get it done, but the touchdowns were there. He was catching. He almost, man, he caught a touchdown. Yeah, he almost all the games. He had a touchdown stretch to end the season. But his yardage was comical at times. 45, 37, 10, 1460, 39. for the last six weeks. He had a monster week 10, which is what we expected to see more up, more blow-up games for Brandon Cooks. Now, Mike, you like him at wide receiver 44 as a flyer late in drafts. It's the, I mean, you saw, so right now he's going, the wide receiver 65. Last year, all those games at the beginning when you were, like Brandon Cook's had poor games. So did Dak Prescott.

for fantasy purposes. And, like, it's, it's hard to remember now. It's because it can be very difficult to remember game script of what happens. But there was, the Cowboys were blowing everybody out at the beginning, except for the one game where they got crushed by the Arizona Cardinals somehow in week three, which was, I mean, essentially a blowout in the other direction. You just had really, really wild games where even in that stretch, CD Lamb, who's in Alpha, CD Lamb had three games under 10 points in the first six weeks. Why didn't they use Brandon Cooks to blow people out more? At the beginning? Yeah, or at all. What do you mean at the end? Not every game. Like if you're the Cowboys, you're like, why didn't you use Brandon Cooks a lot? Why should we not blow them out? He's got too many similarities to Quentin Johnston in terms of getting a billion snaps and not a lot of involvement.

I'm just asking why he's not a fundamental part of the offense. That was what was disappointed me is it wasn't like the he wasn't like a 1A 1B or 1A and a solidified two. I think he was the two. He was the two. He was the target share goes C.D. Lamb at 30 percent. Brandon Cooks at 13. 54 for 657 on the year. So Jay, you're right. Ferguson would be the number two in terms of target share. So he's the number two pass catcher. But then it was Brandon Cooks and then no one else above a 10%. So he could be the number three then. I like him as a bet on the Dallas Cowboys to continue what they did last year of, we're going to air the ball out. We have one geriatric running back. And then with the other guy who is at this point, been in the league for a while, but still feels like he's unproven. So it's just take some bets that Dak Prescott's going to have another great year. And if Dak has a great year, then.

I think that Cook's can, well, he won't be a, he's not going to be 1,100 yards or probably even 1,000 yards. But you get up over 800 and you get me six to eight touchdowns. I'm happy with that. I don't think there's a ceiling here anymore. He's over 30. Dak just had maybe the best year he's ever had. And Cook finished as the wide receiver 36. So, you know, as a late. late pick in best ball that where you're going to have touchdown opportunities sure but in my redraft i this is i wanted this to go differently because he got thrown into a trade that came my way and i thought i would get into this conversation yeah i acquired he was just an extra player at it on and i wanted to get to the point where i was really in on that but as you know last year 54 for six 57 playing every week in dallas yeah and now he's older

How do you, I mean, how do you even play that? Homey don't play that. As a second, as a second flex, I think you're going to see Brandon Cook's in there. Well, not yours. He's not on your team. That's right. Because I won't drive on an old man's team. Speaking of old man's team, there's one other name. You said I'm going to play Brandon Cooks because I don't have enough good players. Is that what you're telling me? No, I'm telling you you got old guys. The Brandon Cooks is one of the better ones. You've got one other. I also have feeling. Oh, man. Do you really? Do it. Do you really?

We should track how many weeks I start either one of those players. Dude, let's go. I hope a lot. Don't worry, guys. I won't play either because I got to lock it. Oh, lock it down. Yeah. Yeah. But don't you have, do you have a Mario Cooper? Yeah. Okay. That's an actual undervalued old guy. Okay. So you love him. I do love him. I think he is a super solid player right now. He was good this last season. I talked about it. He's been drafted like Evans. last year almost. I mean, wide receiver 30. Oh, I thought you were saying he was being drafted like Evans this year, which was like wide receiver 17. That would be crazy. But if he's being drafted as the wide receiver 30, and this is, you know, a player who finished as the wide receiver 18 last year, I think it's the fears of Deshawn Watson. I brought this stat up in the past. But there were five games that Amari Cooper played with Deshaun Watson. That was a pace of 95 for 1632 yards and seven touchdowns. He's the clear cut one for this team.

He's, I think he is right now being completely undervalued in drafts. Last year was, I mean, the one big week was amazing. 11 for 265 and 2. You had quarterbacks dancing all over the place. Not a lot of touchdowns. I agree. I agree that he's undervalued. I think the Watson stink. rubs off a little bit. Yeah, I don't see him as having the upside of a Cooper Cup or, you know, even a Mike Evans here. But at the same time, you don't have to draft him like those. And even last year, keep in mind that all wide receivers that are past the top like six guys, they're all inconsistent. If you look at wide receiver consistency compared to wide receiver consistency, he has a consistency score of a beat. So he has monstrous games, but not all of his production.

came in those like a like a DJ Moore he was actually pretty consistent his target volume is assured and he played well with Sean Watson so I for wide receiver 30 I think I think he's going to outproduce that this season you agree Mike yeah Jason's talked me into him I don't like it good work Jay I don't really like it I hate playing with Baltimore you know what I mean but you know the math is what the math is Do you guys, real quick, we won't dig into each one, but I just want to know, do you believe at all in the value for Mostard in the seventh? Yes. Yeah. James Connor in the sixth. Yep. Yeah. Camara in the fifth. Yes. PPR for sure. Zeke in the 11th. The 11th? Okay. Zeke is just for fantasy football, I'm pretty out. Okay. I thought you were going to be in. I'm going to say I'm out.